124 replies to this topic

[CRYSiiSx2]

Beckys_Mom, on 19 January 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

As you clicked like ( as if to agree )  on the arrogant comment above, that tells an Australian that his comments mean nothing to you guys.......But now you are telling me that there is no fun in ignoring the comments you find that mean nothing..  This now begs the question  - It leaves you to do what?  Fight with them?  Argue non stop until you are blue in the face?  Or Be pleasant and discuss it like adults ? .... Seriously what is left  IF you find it boring to ignore meaningless comments ?  I am asking you this because I have no idea what logic you have for answering what you class as meaningless comments ? I am not trying to pick anything with you, but I am seriously asking you what logic you have with that?

One last question -  Can you say that Americans ( including those on here )  never make comments ( opinions of their own )  on articles and situations in ref to other world wide countries?  Whether it be politics, religion and other cultural issues ?

Holy crap you are one annoying human being.

[Beckys_Mom]

CRYSiiSx2, on 23 January 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

Holy crap you are one annoying human being.

Of course, pointing out the arrogance of your thoughtless statement about non Americans posting  is more intelligent ...Seriously, next time, try adding logic and seek support from any mod telling them that non Americans should not post on American threads..  Then see how far you go..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 23 January 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[Beckys_Mom]

-Mr_Fess-, on 23 January 2013 - 12:27 AM, said:

Yes they do. But this one's a biggun, no pun intended. Too many people are aware of their guns and their right to bear them...

I think there are more rights people felt they should protect than just a gun...Surely guns cannot be the be all and end all of items they want to protect.. Meaning over all ?  I know protection is a right ( I will not dispute that )  but I cannot see the logic behind your previous statement, but I am trying to understand where you are coming from......  From people calling the government bullies for decades, accusing them of all sorts, some calling them tyrants, so reading your previous statement, doesn't hold up..  Yes people will go crazy if their rights are taken away, ( who doesn't )  but the same can be said for their benefits and taxes and other things that you find important... Governments are well known for many years to have made changes and not care for what the public think.. Even if riots break out over a change made..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 23 January 2013 - 11:49 AM.

[Yamato]

Beckys_Mom, on 23 January 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

I think there are more rights people felt they should protect than just a gun...Surely guns cannot be the be all and end all of items they want to protect.. Meaning over all ?

The Bill of Rights would get you closer to "overall" or the "end all".  The First Amendment for instance is huge in the US, not just concerning people who feel passionate about gun rights, but everyone who desires to have freedom of expression, speech, assembly, worship.    Still, the 2nd is particularly vital because it serves to keep all of our other rights protected.   The government uses guns to solve its problems all the time, yet snickers and sneers come so readily when the idea of the people doing it is mentioned.  I fail to understand why.  If history has taught us anything it's that governments everywhere at any time are insane, and there will always be a need for guns one day, eventually.

[F3SS]

Beckys_Mom, on 23 January 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

I think there are more rights people felt they should protect than just a gun...Surely guns cannot be the be all and end all of items they want to protect.. Meaning over all ?  I know protection is a right ( I will not dispute that )  but I cannot see the logic behind your previous statement, but I am trying to understand where you are coming from......  From people calling the government bullies for decades, accusing them of all sorts, some calling them tyrants, so reading your previous statement, doesn't hold up..  Yes people will go crazy if their rights are taken away, ( who doesn't )  but the same can be said for their benefits and taxes and other things that you find important...    Governments are well known for many years to have made changes and not care for what the public think.. Even if riots break out over a change made..

Yamato is right. The 2nd amendment is the be all end all protection of everything else. Government can be bullies and such but my statement does hold up, as a last resort. The reason I believe the first and second amendments weren't switched around is because on a day to day basis our voices get a lot done. We aren't a barbaric people and we want to try and solve as many problems as possible with free speech and our arms looming in the background as in 'listen to us, our mouths aren't our only option.' We aren't going to go into all out revolt without first using our voices and votes but there may come a time when we will have to and that's why my statement holds up: there may come a time. Nobody is going to accept loosing such an important safe measure just because we live in a modern world covered in a veil of faux-trust.
Another reason we must keep our fire power is another just incase and not impossible scenario. There are many countries and various power players out there who want to either take us out or get us under their control. In oppressive countries their leaders see us a a distraction. They like to oppress and when their people hear about the freedoms and quality of life we have that's bad news for the leadership because if the people decide they'd like to have a little of what we have the people get mad and revolt and tyrants need control. So, there are many countries who'd love nothing more than to try and obliterate us so the greatest example of freedom in history would no longer be seen and when you don't know about something your unlikely to see and want it.
As for creepy power hungry NWO types, which do exist in some form, they see us as an annoyance and the biggest obstacle in the way of their checkmate. We are armed to the teeth and we understand liberty and freedom and we won't give it up. If they can finally get all the cards in order within our government, eradicate the constitution and get the whole country on the government teet then they'll have control of us because if they control the government and the government controls us then they'll have checkmate. For now though, we still control the government. Maybe not as much as we are supposed to anymore but we still have power over them.
Concerning all threats and whatever the reason they all see us as spoiled brats because of how free we are and all would love to teach us a lesson and show the world that they were the ones to get us in line. Yes. These scenarios seem out there and I don't obsess about any of them but they are all possible and so long as we have 300,000,000 or more guns in the hands of civilians, well that's something to consider. Don't mess with us.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-, 23 January 2013 - 06:34 PM.

[Beckys_Mom]

-Mr_Fess-, on 23 January 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Yamato is right. The 2nd amendment is the be all end all protection of everything else. Government can be bullies and such but my statement does hold up, as a last resort. The reason I believe the first and second amendments weren't switched around is because on a day to day basis our voices get a lot done. We aren't a barbaric people and we want to try and solve as many problems as possible with free speech and our arms looming in the background as in 'listen to us, our mouths aren't our only option.' We aren't going to go into all out revolt without first using our voices and votes but there may come a time when we will have to and that's why my statement holds up: there may come a time. Nobody is going to accept loosing such an important safe measure just because we live in a modern world covered in a veil of faux-trust.
Another reason we must keep our fire power is another just incase and not impossible scenario. There are many countries and various power players out there who want to either take us out or get us under their control. In oppressive countries their leaders see us a a distraction. They like to oppress and when their people hear about the freedoms and quality of life we have that's bad news for the leadership because if the people decide they'd like to have a little of what we have the people get mad and revolt and tyrants need control. So, there are many countries who'd love nothing more than to try and obliterate us so the greatest example of freedom in history would no longer be seen and when you don't know about something your unlikely to see and want it.
As for creepy power hungry NWO types, which do exist in some form, they see us as an annoyance and the biggest obstacle in the way of their checkmate. We are armed to the teeth and we understand liberty and freedom and we won't give it up. If they can finally get all the cards in order within our government, eradicate the constitution and get the whole country on the government teet then they'll have control of us because if they control the government and the government controls us then they'll have checkmate. For now though, we still control the government. Maybe not as much as we are supposed to anymore but we still have power over them.
Concerning all threats and whatever the reason they all see us as spoiled brats because of how free we are and all would love to teach us a lesson and show the world that they were the ones to get us in line. Yes. These scenarios seem out there and I don't obsess about any of them but they are all possible and so long as we have 300,000,000 or more guns in the hands of civilians, well that's something to consider. Don't mess with us.

Let me sat that was an EXCELLENT response ....Just as it was back in the day, when civilians stood up against the British invasion, now today no country could take over America, because of the arms held by the population..To add I'd say that the biggest army in the world  ( I think is China, but don't quote me on that )  could not take over  America

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 23 January 2013 - 08:55 PM.

[F3SS]

Beckys_Mom, on 23 January 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

Let me sat that was an EXCELLENT response ....Just as it was back in the day, when civilians stood up against the British invasion, now today no country could take over America, because of the arms held by the population..To add I'd say that the biggest army in the world  ( I think is China, but don't quote me on that )  could not take over  America

Thanks and I'm glad to help make sense of it for you and I thank you for asking so many questions, lol. It gets me thinking and helps me figure things out for myself too. Yea, China has the largest army and most available manpower and I wouldn't bet any money on what the outcome of a war like that would be. It'd be scary as hell and nobody would win.
Don't know how interested you are but I found this website sometime ago. It's very informative about world military rankings and the resources available within many categories. It's well laid out and easy to browse...
http://www.globalfirepower.com/

[Beckys_Mom]

-Mr_Fess-, on 23 January 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Thanks and I'm glad to help make sense of it for you and I thank you for asking so many questions, lol. It gets me thinking and helps me figure things out for myself too.

I need to ask questions when I take an interest in certain things, and I love it when I get informative answers  ( Like the one you just gave me ) I get to learn more that way...I like to know why people feel the way they do about these things, it helps me understand more..  It is hard for me living over here in N.Ireland to know the in's and out's of everything that goes on in America, because all I really get is what the media broadcasts / publishes..But I feel when I talk more to the citizens  ( like yourself ) it can give better clarity ...I am trying to understand and learn more about the political side..   If I need to learn anything more, I would rather ask you, that way my knowledge and understanding can go further.. So if you ever see me question you or show doubts to something you have said, just tell yourself that I am only trying to understand ...

Quote

   Don't know how interested you are but I found this website sometime ago. It's very informative about world military rankings and the resources available within many categories. It's well laid out and easy to browse...
http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Thanks for sharing, I did check it out... I had a feeling the USA were at the top of the list, but there were countries on there I was more surprised by ....If you have more info ( at any time ) please by all means post it up for me to read.. It can be most helpful

EDIT to add.. I forgot to ask you another question...  Was the second amendment brought out because of the British invasion?   I thought it was, but I am not 100% sure ...

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 24 January 2013 - 12:38 AM.

[F3SS]

Beckys_Mom, on 24 January 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

I need to ask questions when I take an interest in certain things, and I love it when I get informative answers  ( Like the one you just gave me ) I get to learn more that way...I like to know why people feel the way they do about these things, it helps me understand more..  It is hard for me living over here in N.Ireland to know the in's and out's of everything that goes on in America, because all I really get is what the media broadcasts / publishes..But I feel when I talk more to the citizens  ( like yourself ) it can give better clarity ...I am trying to understand and learn more about the political side..   If I need to learn anything more, I would rather ask you, that way my knowledge and understanding can go further.. So if you ever see me question you or show doubts to something you have said, just tell yourself that I am only trying to understand ...



Thanks for sharing, I did check it out... I had a feeling the USA were at the top of the list, but there were countries on there I was more surprised by ....If you have more info ( at any time ) please by all means post it up for me to read.. It can be most helpful

EDIT to add.. I forgot to ask you another question...  Was the second amendment brought out because of the British invasion?   I thought it was, but I am not 100% sure ...

No problem. Ask me anything you want. Keep in mind you might not always like the answer though. Most of what I'm telling you comes from opinion and general understanding of things as I understand them and not so much from an academic standpoint. And it's good of you to talk to us citizens to clear up what the media tells you which can't always be trusted of course.
As for your last question, I can't give an answer for sure but I'd say it certainly played a role but mostly I think it came from a thorough understanding of the world history of governments. They almost always spiral out of control. The founding fathers were genius' and understood that perfectly. That is why they wrote the constitution and the bill of rights. Not only did people of this country need that protection but people of all future generations needed to understand its importance and all its principals and the tyrannical world history that mandated such a lawful document. Unfortunately many here today, inside government and out, call it an old piece of paper and I hear many schools aren't teaching children any history before our civil war. Once a few generations come about that haven't been taught how this country came to be and the principals on which it was found then, as I said before, if people don't know about something they'll never want for it and complacency ensues and tyranny prevails.

[Beckys_Mom]

-Mr_Fess-, on 24 January 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

As for your last question, I can't give an answer for sure but I'd say it certainly played a role but mostly I think it came from a thorough understanding of the world history of governments. They almost always spiral out of control. The founding fathers were genius' and understood that perfectly. That is why they wrote the constitution and the bill of rights. Not only did people of this country need that protection but people of all future generations needed to understand its importance and all its principals and the tyrannical world history that mandated such a lawful document.

Yes indeed. From what I have read - . The founding fathers knew there was no such thing as a perfect government, and they didn't trust their own government at that time They knew that there is the potential for any government to become tyrannical ..( Which I wouldn't doubt ) They wanted to insure the people, that they would have the ability to stage an armed rebellion against the government if it at any time should ever turn tyranny ... The invasion of the British back then indeed played a big part in it...... I found this info below...

The well-regulated militia referred to in the Second Amendment was, in fact, the 18th-century equivalent to the U.S. Armed Forces. Other than a small force of paid officers (primarily responsible for supervising civilian conscripts), the United States that existed at the time the Second Amendment was proposed had no professional, trained army. Instead it relied almost exclusively on civilian militias for self-defense--in other words, the rounding up of all available men between the ages of 18 and 50. In the event of foreign invasion, there would be no trained military force to hold back the British or the French. The United States relied on the power of its own citizens to defend the country against attack, and had committed to such an isolationist foreign policy that the chances of ever deploying forces overseas seemed remote at best.  http://civilliberty....ndamendment.htm

So part of it was because of  the governments, and part was because of foreign invasions  ( Like the British and French ) .. Interesting......Yet today  ( at present ) you will hear some British saying that guns should be banned in America, and yet the Second Amendment was put in place partly because of the British invading all those years ago.....It is a little ironic !!

-Mr_Fess-, on 24 January 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

Unfortunately many here today, inside government and out, call it an old piece of paper and I hear many schools aren't teaching children any history before our civil war. Once a few generations come about that haven't been taught how this country came to be and the principals on which it was found then, as I said before, if people don't know about something they'll never want for it and complacency ensues and tyranny prevails.

History of your country should be taught to all kids.. How else are they going to learn anything and understand why certain rights were ever put in place?   I agree with you, if they don't know anything about it, in the future still to come, they may not care to take a stand.....

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 24 January 2013 - 01:30 PM.

[F3SS]

Beckys_Mom, on 24 January 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

It is a little ironic !!



History of your country should be taught to all kids.. How else are they going to learn anything and understand why certain rights were ever put in place?   I agree with you, if they don't know anything about it, in the future still to come, they may not care to take a stand.....

Ironic indeed though I'm not concerned with a British Invasion these days.

And that would be exactly the point.

[Beckys_Mom]

-Mr_Fess-, on 24 January 2013 - 07:09 PM, said:

Ironic indeed though I'm not concerned with a British Invasion these days.

No not British....As for others? ...Cross that bridge when you come to it..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 25 January 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

you know, I can legally own a gun here in the evil socialised country of Australia.
Except we call it a responsibility, not a right. Maybe it's a mindset thing, but we do have less gun crime, even on a per capita ratio.

[CRYSiiSx2]

Wearer of Hats, on 25 January 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

you know, I can legally own a gun here in the evil socialised country of Australia.
Except we call it a responsibility, not a right. Maybe it's a mindset thing, but we do have less gun crime, even on a per capita ratio.

okay bud...

[libstaK]

There has been more than one comment here that opinions of those outside of America are not welcome and derogatory language used about the comments made by these unwelcome groups.  This is ridiculous and needs to stop now.

Participation and opinions in all forums is welcomed and encouraged of all members.  Any attempt to discriminate on the basis of country, race or gender is a direct breach of the rules.

The next attempt to suggest that comments from specific groups of members are unwelcome will be dealt with formally.

Please review the rules and take note of the following:

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Back to topic folks.