60 replies to this topic

[FenderJazzBass]

http://journalofcosm...nnaruwaRRRR.pdf

Sorry too excited to spell properly. Can someone edit the title of this post for spelling ?

Edited by FenderJazzBass, 18 January 2013 - 04:59 PM.

[Hazzard]

FenderJazzBass, on 18 January 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

http://journalofcosm...nnaruwaRRRR.pdf

Sorry too excited to spell properly. Can someone edit the title of this post for spelling ?

Algae inside a comet,... Panspermia is a valid theory? There is life in space. Sounds very cool indeed.

But, is this Professor Chandra Wickramasinghe credible?

http://www.slate.com..._meteorite.html

Edited by Hazzard, 18 January 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[seeder]

and theres me just about to get interested - and its debunked first post !  This is the thing, people need to check the sources..

[seeder]

FenderJazzBass, on 18 January 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

Sorry too excited to spell properly.

If it was real, don't you think it'd be on TV news, like you know, a major story? Last time a thingy was seen in a meteorite..the president announced it on TV too, along with NASA.

So unless you hear it from them in your quests... its bogus!

http://www2.jpl.nasa...nc/clinton.html




.

[Tesla II]

So one scientist debunked a groups work impressive and he was even american... Like we know in this field of work there is always disbelief in someone elses work especially when one sends a link to the paper... a good scientis will make HUGE conclusions from the link provided :clap .

I would believe the "debunking" story if this colorado scientist actualy did any work on sample alone but hey lets believe the link!
Oh and we all know fringe science isnt accepted anywhere...

Quote

However, there are no details whatsoever of the find itself. Where did they find it, exactly?

He goes on that some elements that were found at analysis of the meteor are present on earth... Really? So they thought they will find a new element triple xyz which will be sure proof of the space origin of the rock...But hey elements on earth are found everywhere in space so how is that debunking a meteorite????

We are looking just for that algae fossilized or not..and this debunking source is just a blog... whatever dude. The link had offical records, papers, diagrams,analysis and you want me to believe a blog...I need more conclusive proof than someone else's story.

EDit: Quote from Wiki about our crazy scientist "Nalin Chandra Wickramasinghe (born 20 January 1939) is a Sri Lankan-born British mathematician. He is currently Director of theBuckingham University Centre for Astrobiology."

I will belive someone who actualy works in the field of astrobiology than someone who gazes at stars.

More from our crazy scientist

Quote

“ My most significant astronomical contribution was to develop the theory of organic grains in comets and in the interstellar medium. This was done during the 1970s and 1980s, and it is now accepted by everyone almost without remembering its origins! I feel I also played a part in the birth of the science of astrobiology.

Sources: Wikipedia , Link from Hazzard, link from Fender   ”

Edited by Nuke_em, 18 January 2013 - 07:00 PM.

[bison]

Dr. Phil Plait's blog at Slate is scarcely the last word on this matter. He admits that he is not an expert on meteorites. He apparently didn't consult one, either. He merely wrote that he did not think that the object looked like a meteorite, even of the specified carbonaceous chondrite type. I was able to find a picture of a meteorite of this type, which looks very like the Sri Lankan object. It took only a few minutes search at Google Image. Dr. Plait seems in a hurry to dismiss this new discovery.
At least he did consult one biologist about the diatoms found inside the object. This person thought that they looked too much like Earthly organisms to be from anywhere else. He did not specify a single Earthly species; made only a broad statement. He seems to have ignored the part of Dr. Wickramasinghe's paper which said that the diatoms were mineralized, and in a manner very similar to that of the meteorite itself. If this is correct, they are fossils. It seems highly unlikely that contaminating Earthly organisms could have become fossilized in the few days between the fall and the discovery of this meteorite.

[Hazzard]

Prof Wickramasinghe, 72 — famous for controversial ideas such as that the flu virus and even life itself was brought to our planet by comets — said: "It is impossible to understand how carbon-rich particles of such uniform sizes and shapes got inside a rocky matrix if they are not relics of some algal species.


http://www.thesun.co...of-of-life.html

Edited by Hazzard, 18 January 2013 - 09:07 PM.

[Oniomancer]

Nuke_em, on 18 January 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

So one scientist debunked a groups work impressive and he was even american... Like we know in this field of work there is always disbelief in someone elses work especially when one sends a link to the paper... a good scientis will make HUGE conclusions from the link provided :clap .

I would believe the "debunking" story if this colorado scientist actualy did any work on sample alone but hey lets believe the link!
Oh and we all know fringe science isnt accepted anywhere...


He goes on that some elements that were found at analysis of the meteor are present on earth... Really? So they thought they will find a new element triple xyz which will be sure proof of the space origin of the rock...But hey elements on earth are found everywhere in space so how is that debunking a meteorite????

He said chemicals, not elements. Meteorites usually have specific chemical signatures which mark them as extraterrestrial. Minerals such as olivine are often associated with certain meteorites types such as pallisites but it's not exclusive too them, which is the point he's making.

He's also correct about the specimen not seeming to have proper regmaglypts. It also doesn't appear to have a fusion crust but does have what appear to be vesicles. All solid hits against it according to meteorite identification sites I've been on in the past

Quote

AWe are looking just for that algae fossilized or not..and this debunking source is just a blog... whatever dude. The link had offical records, papers, diagrams,analysis and you want me to believe a blog...I need more conclusive proof than someone else's story.

Diatoms have calcium carbonate skeletons. They are by definition then already mineralized.

Quote

EDit: Quote from Wiki about our crazy scientist "Nalin Chandra Wickramasinghe (born 20 January 1939) is a Sri Lankan-born British mathematician. He is currently Director of theBuckingham University Centre for Astrobiology."

I will belive someone who actualy works in the field of astrobiology than someone who gazes at stars.

And I'll take the word of the guy who actually works at astronomy for NASA over a math teacher. (sorry Harte)

Edited by Oniomancer, 18 January 2013 - 11:28 PM.

[bison]

Have visited a few meteorite sites myself. Fusion crusts and  regmaglypts (thumbprint-sized depressions)  appear to be common in meteorites, and make identification of them simpler, but are not necessarily found in every specimen. If a meteor breaks apart near the end of its fall, or as it strikes the ground, pieces exposed from the interior will not not have them. They are caused by atmospheric ablation of the surface of the meteor. I found a picture of a carbonaceous chondrite that looks very like the Sri Lanka object , after just a few minutes search at Google Image. Yes, it is atypical, bit is still classed as a carbonaceous chondrite. I also saw a picture there, of a meteorite with small holes (vesicles) in it.

[White Unicorn]

Let's suppose it was true, Nasa wouldn't be too happy when they are spending millions on Mars and one more or less hits us in the head by accident  LOL

[SwampgasBalloonBoy]

White Unicorn, on 19 January 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Let's suppose it was true, Nasa wouldn't be too happy when they are spending millions on Mars and one more or less hits us in the head by accident  LOL

"Amateur astronomer discovered _______ and later confirmed by NASA when contacted" haven't we heard this before?

[SwampgasBalloonBoy]

Hazzard, on 18 January 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

Prof Wickramasinghe, 72 — famous for controversial ideas such as that the flu virus and even life itself was brought to our planet by comets — said: "It is impossible to understand how carbon-rich particles of such uniform sizes and shapes got inside a rocky matrix if they are not relics of some algal species.


http://www.thesun.co...of-of-life.html

Most scientists worth a damn always have "controversial" ideas. They achieved because they dared to dream.

[SwampgasBalloonBoy]

Oniomancer, on 18 January 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

He said chemicals, not elements. Meteorites usually have specific chemical signatures which mark them as extraterrestrial. Minerals such as olivine are often associated with certain meteorites types such as pallisites but it's not exclusive too them, which is the point he's making.

He's also correct about the specimen not seeming to have proper regmaglypts. It also doesn't appear to have a fusion crust but does have what appear to be vesicles. All solid hits against it according to meteorite identification sites I've been on in the past



Diatoms have calcium carbonate skeletons. They are by definition then already mineralized.



And I'll take the word of the guy who actually works at astronomy for NASA over a math teacher. (sorry Harte)

Are you serious about the math teacher comment?

Thanks, Nuke_em, for finding out more about Wicramasinghe than the so-called debunkers did. Skeptics are quick to attack the guy without bother to learn more about him and his accomplishments. "fringe scientist", just a "math teacher" , If he isn't from NASA, he suck? Come on, you can do better than this.

[psyche101]

SwampgasBalloonBoy, on 19 January 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

Are you serious about the math teacher comment?

Thanks, Nuke_em, for finding out more about Wicramasinghe than the so-called debunkers did. Skeptics are quick to attack the guy without bother to learn more about him and his accomplishments. "fringe scientist", just a "math teacher" , If he isn't from NASA, he suck? Come on, you can do better than this.

Wicramasinghe I agree might not be quite as nutty as is made out, but the article does have a point, and he does tend to scream the sky is falling an awful lot. Like the article says, he claims everything from the flu to red rain is panspermia. He's got panspermia on the brain a little too much. But you do not become Director of the Center for Astrobiology at the University of Buckingham if your a certified kook. His mentor was Fred Hoyle, the man who did not believe in, and inadvertently so named the big bang. That very well might account for a somewhat eccentric viewpoint.
And I agree that the articles basis is not correct, this part anyhow:

Quote

In other words, all the diatoms shown in the paper are from known species on Earth. That makes it somewhat less likely they are native to space. And by somewhat, I mean completely. Like, zero chance they are from space.

I agree, I think that is cart before the horse a bit, we do not know what sparked life on earth, and yes, he did claim fossils, and these do not look like fossils, however, has he used a model, or did space offer some amazing preservation ability? Could this be the reason that such microbes did start life on earth? If he found microbes in a space rock that look like that, then he might really be onto something. The paper is right that the claim is premature, but so is saying this is "NOT" evidence of panspermia. It might be, and if anyone would know, I guess it would probably be Wicramasinghe.

But, the article makes a damn good point with the origin of said rock. Is is from space at all? It certainly does not look like it, and with the resources available to Wicramasinghe we should know, and have proof, Isotopic ratio's compositions, there are som definite markers that can prove if he actually has a space rock, or an earth rock. If it is an earth rock, this is hardly remarkable. We are not seeing any of this, I think we should have this with the claim myself.

What we need is more input from Wicramasinghe, I just hope we get it. If we do not, I fear the claim looks very bad for him, and with his feverish pursuit of panspermia, I am not sure how many more blows his credibility can take. He needs to pull back a bit and be sure before making a claim. All he is doing is making himself look bad when he makes a premature claim(s) that turns out to have been based on no more than enthusiasm, and enthusiastic the doctor is, as anyone can see. At the moment, it's an enticing claim, but little more. Time will tell, I just hope Wicramasinghe is not diving ito the deep end again, but I have to say, it would appear so.

Edited by psyche101, 19 January 2013 - 07:34 AM.

[Hazzard]

Good post, psyche,... and I would like to add one thing.  Contrary to what some here may believe, if it was proven that the rock was from space and the diatoms extraterrestrial. I (every skeptic) would be as awestruck as the rest of you. It would be wonderful news.

That would be the first time in history that we have that final SCIENTIFIC exhibit A, that life exist out there.




To be continued I guess,...

Edited by Hazzard, 19 January 2013 - 02:05 PM.