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Neanderthal to be born to surrogate mother?


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#76    ozman

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:59 AM

That won't stop anyone with enough money from secretly doing it on some island out there like in Jurassic park.  Btw, wasn't it in the news that some people out there in the world already have neanderthal genes due to neanderthals mixing with humans way back in the past?

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#77    Ad hoc

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:02 AM

View Postozman, on 23 January 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

That won't stop anyone with enough money from secretly doing it on some island out there like in Jurassic park.  Btw, wasn't it in the news that some people out there in the world already have neanderthal genes due to neanderthals mixing with humans way back in the past?
yep. although it's debated now. 1-4% on average for europeans & asians (although asians might be a teeny bit higher if I remember right). which is about the same as having a great great great grandparent that is a neanderthal if it stands.

and yeah, what goes on behind closed high-echelon doors is another matter again.


#78    3.0

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:38 AM

Trying to resurrect past humans; seems to be playing God to me.


#79    Myles

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:41 PM

View Post3.0, on 24 January 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

Trying to resurrect past humans; seems to be playing God to me.

Where do you draw the line?   Bringing back an animal?   Bringing back a plant?  Helping someone stay alive when they are dieing of natural causes?    Helping a beached whale?

Just saying that "playing God" already happens.


#80    Taun

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:24 PM

View PostMyles, on 24 January 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Where do you draw the line?   Bringing back an animal?   Bringing back a plant?  Helping someone stay alive when they are dieing of natural causes? Helping a beached whale?

Just saying that "playing God" already happens.

While I agree with the gist of what you posted... there are other considerations... Bringing back a dinosaur - for example - fills a niche for researching what they were really like... they can be studied, examined, even disected when dead to learn more - they can be kept in a 'zoo' or preserve like in the movies... but a humanoid? can we justify bringing one back to be kept in a cage to be studied? At least a person kept in jail is (theoretically at least) there as a result of their misdeeds... A reborn neanderthal (or earlier species of homo-) would be imprisoned for life for the crime of being born... Or are they going to bring them back and just turn them loose?... I don't think so...

Bringing a Neanderthal back fills no niche for research... we would not learn anything about their societies, their beliefs, customs, habits, etc... only their biology and that would be suspect because of the human surrogates that carried them, sharing genetic material...

Edited by Taun, 24 January 2013 - 01:26 PM.


#81    Ad hoc

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:25 PM

View PostMyles, on 24 January 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Where do you draw the line?   Bringing back an animal?   Bringing back a plant?  Helping someone stay alive when they are dieing of natural causes? Helping a beached whale?

Just saying that "playing God" already happens.

indeed, I can't stand that phrase, because it gets thrown around a lot whilst meaning almost nothing. Better not let an ambulance crew bring you back with a defibrilator- harnessing the primal electrical force of nature and sending it through the heart of a body that's just 'died' to get it beating again and bring the person back to life is as much playing god as anything.

On the other side of it- how can you even 'play' god? if you can really wield special powers reserved for god, then you must be (a) god. or else you're just working with tools you've been given- either BY god if there is one, or by the nature of the universe if there isn't. Either way you're 'playing' human.


#82    Ad hoc

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:28 PM

View PostTaun, on 24 January 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

While I agree with the gist of what you posted... there are other considerations... Bringing back a dinosaur - for example - fills a niche for researching what they were really like... they can be studied, examined, even disected when dead to learn more - they can be kept in a 'zoo' or preserve like in the movies... but a humanoid? can we justify bringing one back to be kept in a cage to be studied? At least a person kept in jail is (theoretically at least) there as a result of their misdeeds... A reborn neanderthal (or earlier species of homo-) would be imprisoned for life for the crime of being born... Or are they going to bring them back and just turn them loose?... I don't think so...

Bringing a Neanderthal back fills no niche for research... we would not learn anything about their societies, their beliefs, customs, habits, etc... only their biology and that would be suspect because of the human surrogates that carried them, sharing genetic material...

that's just a position on whether it's moral, or a good idea, or not. I think myles was specifically reacting to the platitude 'playing god'

Edited by ad hoc, 24 January 2013 - 01:29 PM.


#83    Myles

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:26 PM

View Postad hoc, on 24 January 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

indeed, I can't stand that phrase, because it gets thrown around a lot whilst meaning almost nothing. Better not let an ambulance crew bring you back with a defibrilator- harnessing the primal electrical force of nature and sending it through the heart of a body that's just 'died' to get it beating again and bring the person back to life is as much playing god as anything.

On the other side of it- how can you even 'play' god? if you can really wield special powers reserved for god, then you must be (a) god. or else you're just working with tools you've been given- either BY god if there is one, or by the nature of the universe if there isn't. Either way you're 'playing' human.

That is an awesome take on the phrase "playing God".
:tsu:

Edited by Myles, 24 January 2013 - 03:26 PM.


#84    freetoroam

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:38 PM

View Postozman, on 23 January 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

It's all a lie by the press, they misunderstood what he said in an interview.  Read this article that shows he is not pursuing this project at all.  
http://www.8newsnow....r-a-neanderthal
As ozman has pointed out here, looks like the Neanderthal Frankenstein if off, or rather, was never on in the first place.
maybe he saw this thread and decided against the idea. This thread was posted on the 19th, the article on the 22nd. :whistle:
But this does not mean there are not many other Frankensteins out there, making sure they do not do any interviews with Der Spiegel.

Edited by freetoroam, 24 January 2013 - 03:54 PM.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#85    Myles

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:44 PM

View PostTaun, on 24 January 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

While I agree with the gist of what you posted... there are other considerations... Bringing back a dinosaur - for example - fills a niche for researching what they were really like... they can be studied, examined, even disected when dead to learn more - they can be kept in a 'zoo' or preserve like in the movies... but a humanoid? can we justify bringing one back to be kept in a cage to be studied? At least a person kept in jail is (theoretically at least) there as a result of their misdeeds... A reborn neanderthal (or earlier species of homo-) would be imprisoned for life for the crime of being born... Or are they going to bring them back and just turn them loose?... I don't think so...

Bringing a Neanderthal back fills no niche for research... we would not learn anything about their societies, their beliefs, customs, habits, etc... only their biology and that would be suspect because of the human surrogates that carried them, sharing genetic material...
I agree, but some would argue that it is nearly as bad to bring a dinosaur back to just keep it caged up.    I'm not one of them.


#86    Taun

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:17 PM

View PostMyles, on 24 January 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

I agree, but some would argue that it is nearly as bad to bring a dinosaur back to just keep it caged up. I'm not one of them.

The dinos wouldn't need to be 'caged'... we could put them all on some island, like... Japan maybe!  let them roam free - the Japanese shouldn't mind, after all they've dealt with Godzilla for all those years - a few cute and cuddly T-Rex's and Raptors should be no problem at all!


#87    freetoroam

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:40 PM

View PostTaun, on 24 January 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

The dinos wouldn't need to be 'caged'... we could put them all on some island, like... Japan maybe!  let them roam free - the Japanese shouldn't mind, after all they've dealt with Godzilla for all those years - a few cute and cuddly T-Rex's and Raptors should be no problem at all!
Not very fair though on the poor old dino, Japan are riddled with Earthquakes, best they go somewhere where they will not get harmed again, be it by humans or another natural disaster, say maybe........Mars?

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#88    Taun

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:59 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 24 January 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Not very fair though on the poor old dino, Japan are riddled with Earthquakes, best they go somewhere where they will not get harmed again, be it by humans or another natural disaster, say maybe........Mars?

Wow... think how fast a raptor would be at 38% gravity!!!


#89    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:42 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 24 January 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Not very fair though on the poor old dino, Japan are riddled with Earthquakes, best they go somewhere where they will not get harmed again, be it by humans or another natural disaster, say maybe........Mars?
it might help if they were able to breathe, though ...

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#90    Myles

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:34 PM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 24 January 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

it might help if they were able to breathe, though ...
Good thought.   Since the oxygen levels were different for the dino's, wouldn't they need to be kept in a regulated containment?





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