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Heaven and Hell


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#16    Frank Merton

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:52 AM

View PostI believe you, on 22 January 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

Heaven is paradise. It comes from the Persian word for garden.
A garden is what one usually gets if one asks a Vietnamese artist to paint paradise.  The one strange thing about such paradises is that they contain birds and butterflies and fish and animals, but not people.  I don't think that's because the author doesn't think people can go to Heaven, but because putting them there would remind us of the troubles they cause.  The lions do tend to be lying with the lambs.

The Christian concept of Heaven is a little more boring, with clouds and harps and all that, but it's still a nice place.

The one problem with such a vision is that it doesn't seem to contain the things we thrive on -- purpose and challenge.  All the problems are solved, all the challenges completed.  An eternity in such a place is hard to imagine.

Quote

Hell, well there is more than one hell mentioned in the Bible if this is where you are getting it from, which one did you mean? They might all be written "hell" in English but there are different original words if you look into it. Gehenna, Hades?
People like to imagine that those who do bad things must be punished.  It is inherent in every religion I know of, but I think reflects our propensity to judge others.  Perhaps if we knew the entire story of why someone does evil, we would not judge as harshly.


#17    Winchester_8

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:40 PM

I want to believe that Heaven is a place where you re-live your greatest hits, so the best memories from when you were still alive.
I hope that if I would die and if I would go to Heaven, I could share it with real family and friends, not just imaginations.

About Hell, I want to believe that Hell is a place for eternal punishment for the bad things you've done in life, with real torture and all that...I'd prefer staying away from there hehe :)

But these are my beliefs, there's no proof that these places actually excist, but I want to believe...

Edited by Winchester_8, 09 April 2013 - 02:40 PM.


#18    White Crane Feather

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:32 PM

States of mind. I have been to hell and heaven. I'd rather avoid both. I suspect that's what I'm doing right now. :)

Edited by Seeker79, 09 April 2013 - 03:33 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#19    Bluefinger

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:21 PM

View PostSarahAvery, on 20 January 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

What do you think is Heaven and Hell? Do you think that Heaven is a kingdom in the sky, kind of like it is projected to be in the Bible. Or do you think heaven is the place you were the happiest on earth? or do you have a different ideal on what it is? Same for Hell, do you think it is this fiery place below the earth or do you think that maybe just maybe it is being stuck something or someone you don't like here on earth? Whats your opinion, this is just my thoughts on this. I am not  saying that the Christian Bible is right or wrong, just curious on what you believe. Maybe you don't believe in a Hell, or maybe you believe something different. Just curious.

I don't think the Bible teaches that we will go to heaven.  That being said, I believe that heaven is the work of God and is made manifest in His kingdom on earth.  That is what was meant when Jesus preached that the kingdom of heaven was at hand.  God was about to interfere with human affairs and do something to bring about His promises.  Hence, you often hear Christians acknowledging that their salvation was the work of God.  This can be explored more if you are interested.  

However, to the earliest audience (Jews), heaven was the fulfillment of the promises that God made to Abraham, a promise that Jesus extended to the Gentiles.

Hell, on the other hand, was being thrust out of God's promises and out of the blessings of Abraham.  See Deuteronomy 28:15-68.  Hell was the full force of the curse of the Law: Death and perpetual sorrow, which the Jews suffered for nearly two thousand years, (including the Spanish Inquisition) culminating in the slaughter of 6 million Jews.  Today, they have to give up what they worked hard for just to have peace with their neighbors.  One could say that they are still outside of the promises, or in Hell.

Additionally, Hell was the local landfill, called Gehenna.  It was constantly kept on fire to keep disease out of the city.  This was used to describe the Jewish nation in Jesus' parables, indicating a circumstance rather than a destination.

So heaven is where God is, and where God is, so are His blessings.  And if God is in our hearts (by Christ's teachings,) then Heaven has already come.

It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well.     - Descartes

#20    SpiritWriter

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:56 PM

I think hell is a very real place but it takes place in the spiritual, I say this because it is not a part of our physical in the here and now, but thats not to say its not in the physical of another place. I have seen parts of hell and im sure it can be worste for other people. I dont think its a place of eternal judgement or punishment as normally taught, it may be, but I think also it is a place we must overcome. In regards to Heaven...  my belief and guess is that we get the chance to walk that out now by the choices and intentions we have here on earth. I think heaven is a final form or state we can achieve individually, in a group and ultimatly as one body and this is beyond human comprehension, but still accessable bit by bit if we are looking for it.

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#21    _Only

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:43 PM

View PostBluefinger, on 10 April 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:


So heaven is where God is, and where God is, so are His blessings.  And if God is in our hearts (by Christ's teachings,) then Heaven has already come.

And this would be a good explanation to people who say that heaven would be a stale place having all perfection for eternity, and therefore wouldn't actually be what it presents itself as. Imagine that the state of heaven is there for eternity, but can be drifted in and out of, just as we can enter our own Hell, and states in between.

That aside, I still strongly feel that the words heaven and hell were used to simplify complex ideas and fit them into a more defined box in parables.

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#22    Bluefinger

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 02:59 PM

View Post_Only, on 10 April 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:



And this would be a good explanation to people who say that heaven would be a stale place having all perfection for eternity, and therefore wouldn't actually be what it presents itself as. Imagine that the state of heaven is there for eternity, but can be drifted in and out of, just as we can enter our own Hell, and states in between.

That aside, I still strongly feel that the words heaven and hell were used to simplify complex ideas and fit them into a more defined box in parables.

If the throne of God, heaven's most notable feature, was a parable for something, it would still not be separated from the One who sits on it.

Jesus taught us to pray in saying, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

So, heaven is where the will of God (the authoritatively issued command of the universe's Maker) is carried out.  God's intention, from the beginning, was that His will would be carried out on earth.  That would make God's heavenly kingdom established on earth.

That was the significance of Jerusalem.  It was to be the throne on earth from which God's will would be administered.  The kingdom of God was in Jerusalem until Jesus came.  Then it filled the earth.

Edited by Bluefinger, 03 May 2013 - 03:01 PM.

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#23    Lumpino

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:55 AM

I think, heaven and hell are places in the "spiritual" world. People can summon angels, démons and "pagan" gods.
If there are such a beings, so, must be their worlds too. See old magician books.
I tried some evocations according to ancient texts. Such beings are real, so must be real their worlds, "heaven", "hell", and so on.


#24    conspiracy buff

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 04:37 AM

Everyone has a different take on Heaven or Hell based on whatever your existing preferences in religion are.  I, personally, believe that Heaven & Hell are both very real places that we will be chosen to go once we die.  There have been many studies done on the near death experience that seem to indicate something beyond our earthly existence once we exit via death.  I believe the Earth is filled with multiple dimensions that are unseen and undiscovered, a theory which has caught on in the last couple of years.  Heaven and Hell would both exist in their own dimensions and going to either one depends on the total sum of character and how we live our lives.  Obviously, good people will go to Heaven and bad ones to Hell.  Not everyone is convinced of this and I can understand how people might question it.  This is just my personal belief though and no one can say for sure until we take our fateful journey into the afterlife.

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#25    Artaxerxes

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 04:48 AM

What Do We Know About Heaven?
#1.  Heaven seems to be a place where thoughts are things and consciousness creates reality.

excerpt from Mark H's NDE:
"Suddenly I thought of a mountain, I had seen as a child. When I looked up from the road there it was; The Mountain! Not just the mountain! But the most breathtaking mountain I had ever seen! Details the likes of which no one could imagine. Colors shades of color, shadows for which there are no words in the human language to describe it. "   


http://www.nderf.org...h's_nde.htm

excerpt from A.J. Ayer's NDE:
"Did you know that I was dead ? It was most extraordinary, my thoughts became persons."


http://gonsalves.org...ite/atheist.htm

#2.  Heaven seems to be a place where time and space do not exist; at least not in the same way they do here. The physics of the other side is very different than this physical universe:

  
"I was told that before we're born, we have to take an oath that we will pretend time and space are real so we can come here and advance our spirit. If you don't promise, you can't be born." (from Jeanie Dicus' near-death experience, 1974)

"Space and time are illusions that hold us to our physical realm; out there all is present simultaneously." (from Beverly Brodsky's near-death experience, 1970)

"During this experience, time had no meaning. Time was an irrelevant notion. It felt like eternity. I felt like I was there an eternity." (from Grace Bubulka's near-death experience, 1988?)

"I didn't know if I had been in that light for a minute of a day or a hundred years." (from Jayne Smith's near-death experience, 1965?)

"Earthly time had no meaning for me anymore. There was no concept of "before" or "after." Everything - past, present, future - existed simultaneously." (from Kimberly Sharp's near-death experience, date unknown)

"Time could also be contracted, I found. Centuries would condense into seconds. Millenniums would shrink into moments. The entire civilization that I was part of passed by in the blink of an eye." (from John Star's near-death experience, date unknown)


http://near-death.co...rticles004.html

#3.   Heaven is a place where the feelings of oneness and connectedness seem to be infinite and overwhelming:

excerpt from Mark Horton's NDE:   
"I suddenly just relaxed completely and allowed "myself" to dissolve (?) open up (?) merge (?) into the "oneness" that surrounded me.


http://www.mindsprin.../nde/markh.html

excerpt from Michelle's NDE:   
"I remember understanding the others here.. as if the others here were a part of me too. As if all of it was just a vast expression of me. But it wasn't just me, it was .. gosh this is so hard to explain.. it was as if we were all the same. As if consciousness were like a huge being. The easiest way to explain it would be like all things are all different parts of the same body."   


http://nderf.org/mic...m's_nde.htm

#4.  Heaven seems to be a place where just by thinking about a place or time we can go there and experience everything about that time and place:

excerpt from Mark Horton's NDE
I had to merely think of a place and time and I was there, experiencing everything about the place and time and people present.”
http://www.mindsprin.../nde/markh.html

#5.   And Heaven seems to be a place where because of those feelings of oneness and connectedness we will share the experiences of every living creature that existed:

excerpt from Randy Gehling's (age 10) NDE:   
"That was really cool! I kind of felt as though my body exploded - in a nice way - and became a million different atoms - and each single atom could think its own thoughts and have its own feelings. All at once I seemed to feel like I was a boy, a girl, a dog, a cat, a fish. Then I felt like I was an old man, an old woman - and then a little tiny baby."


http://near-death.co.../animals04.html

#6.   And last but not least; Where is heaven? It seems to be all around us:


Excerpt from little Daisy Dryden's death bed vision:   
Two days before she left us, the Sunday School Superintendent came to see her. She talked very freely about going, and sent a message by him to the Sunday School. When he was about to leave, he said, "Well, Daisy, you will soon be over the 'dark river.` After he had gone, she asked her father what he meant by the "dark river." He tried to explain it, but she said, "It is all a mistake; there is no river; there is no curtain; there is not even a line that separates this life from the other life." And she stretched out her little hands from the bed, and with a gesture said, "It is here and it is there; I know it is so, for I can see you all, and I see them there at the same time."


http://www.survivala...bv/chapter3.htm


#26    markdohle

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:56 PM

View PostSean93, on 22 January 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

The 'Eternal Death' idea of Hell is my Heaven...if god let's me, I'll choose that; non-existentance/eternal oblivion.

Feeling nothing and being unaware of anything is amazing. How do I know? because I've been in a dreamless sleep many times.

Not the same, you wake up from a dreamless sleep, or sleep that you experience as dreamless.  Some people look forward to non-existence, others live in horror of it.  There are believers in God who don't believe in or desire an afterlife.

Peace
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#27    shrooma

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 11:28 PM

roll call-
.
HEAVEN-
.
pat boone.
cliff richard.
john denver.
the osmonds.
conway twitty.
aled jones.
cilla black.
.
HELL-
.
jimi hendrix.
johnny cash.
cliff burton.
keith moon.
jim morrison.
jon bonham.
kurt cobain.
elvis.
sid vicious.
.
I know where I'D wanna spend the afterlife.....
;-)

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#28    markprice

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 05:45 PM

Here you go:




Black Sabbath: Heaven And Hell [Lyrics] - YouTube

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#29    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 10:23 PM

View Postshrooma, on 09 May 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

HEAVEN-
conway twitty.

I'm sure he's in paradise for releasing the following great songs: "You've Never Been This Far Before," and "I'm Not Through Loving You Yet."

Peace.


#30    calaf

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 10:32 PM

View PostSarahAvery, on 20 January 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

What do you think is Heaven and Hell? Do you think that Heaven is a kingdom in the sky, kind of like it is projected to be in the Bible. Or do you think heaven is the place you were the happiest on earth? or do you have a different ideal on what it is? Same for Hell, do you think it is this fiery place below the earth or do you think that maybe just maybe it is being stuck something or someone you don't like here on earth? Whats your opinion, this is just my thoughts on this. I am not  saying that the Christian Bible is right or wrong, just curious on what you believe. Maybe you don't believe in a Hell, or maybe you believe something different. Just curious.

Places created from our aversion to the idea that life is finite.





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