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Father Gill's UnDebunkable Case?


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#136    SwampgasBalloonBoy

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:25 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 30 January 2013 - 02:23 AM, said:

Dead set you could have fooled me. The way you keep making stuff up to shoehorn ET in here I cannot fathom you even considering an alternative.

No, ET is not more plausible, just because you have read many woo woo sites that blather on about FTL travel, you feel comfortable with that which you have read often, time travel is not so it is little wonder that you insist this must be ET, yet you cannot give me one single aspect of Father Gill's description that can only be ET, and to have ET as a candidate, that is necessary.

I mentioned quarantine once, and it is a bugbear for me with all claimed ET contact, not just this case. It is pure fantasy to suggest this has been overcome because "Aliens are advanced". They truly are a god to some. Nothing is beyond their powers. Reality is, no matter what Aliens are and where, they live by the same rules we do. Physics are a constant across the Universe.

No, I will not admit that ET is the best explanation for what seems to be an observational vehicle built for terrestrial viewing with human beings described as being on it. Because that would be a lie. And if we read exactly what Father Gill left us, we have no more of a description than that. It is slightly embarrassing  in fact that people take such a straightforward statements and start inventing Motherships to take in the observed craft, and assume that because Father Gill did not see legs, they could be 20 foot long. None of that is in the original description, and all I have outlined is the description and asked for other possibilities for a what very much appears to be a terrestrial observanional vehicle with human beings on it. I am more than open to any explanation that can fit this scenari, as offered by Father Gill - delegation from Skunworks maybe? But that is why I think you guys get more wrong with every post. You do not consider any possibility other than ET, and at even the suggestion of an alternative will fight tooth and nail, and invent things left right and centre to make ET fit.

You think it is ET because the craft hovered, and took of quickly right? And because you cannot tie in a recognised vehicle to fit the description as given by Father Gill right?

If that is ET, we need at least a mother ship. Does the idea, not even hypothesis, of time travel require any items additional to what Father Gill has said? I think you are all grabbing at straws and saying our infant steps into this realm of science prove (mind you prove not indicate) that wormholes for space travel are more likely than wormholes for time travel, I mean really? Have a look at it. I have a wild guess, no more wild than ET, but to look at my guess, one does not have to add to Father Gills recollection. You are trying to overshadow this with our earliest understanding of such hypotheses. To qualify ET, you need to add components to Father Gill's description. That I see as an important difference. Time travel can work with the description "as is". And any other option that fits Father Gills recollection is something I would welcome.



Damn you are confused easily! Are you sure you are not being deliberately obtuse?

Your preferences should indicate what people would want to look at? If you have a time machine, what is the restriction? Are you suggesting time travel can only ever be achieved once by a species if possible at all? As I said, this is a missionary, changing the culture of individual clans forever. Traditional beliefs being eradicated and replaced with Christianity. I see absolutely no reason why this would not be of great interest to witness to a social study.

I did not say Father Gill did a crime in the future, and perhaps that is the reason for your confusion, maybe you are not reading  the posts through, but skimming across and picking up what you want, which would explain a long list of unanswered questions, when I have had the courtesy to answer each and every one of yours. For your benefit, what I said was "could what Father Gill is doing (in his mission, changing cultures  and diverting traditional belief) be considered a crime at some point in the future?" Personally I would like to see Ancient Alien claim makers go to court to prove their claims or be charged with vandalism now. Hell for all you know, I become a world power in 50 years and outlaw Ancient Alien claims and invent a time machine. No more far fetched than an alien. Unless you have come up with one aspect of Father Gill's recollection that can only be alien?



You just do not get it do you.

It is not an explanation  it is a filler, a quick fix, the first thing that came into my head when considering what men might be doing on a vehicle that appears to be built for terrestrial observation, with human beings on it that has exceptional performance capabilities described  In short, taking Father Gill's words at face value, and trying to fing square pegs to put in square holes. ET is a round peg.

What time paradox? None exist in Father Gills description, not being rude, but do you understand temporal paradoxes, and how many their are? If we do have a paradox here, is it the Grandfather paradox, or the rolling film paradox? If it is the latter, what does that affect?

Like I say, it is not more, if you actually take Father Gills description at what it is. Just the words. Time travel does not need a Mothership that nobody in existence can confirm. If not for the apparent terrestrial use, human beings would still be a question, however nothing need be added for time travel. Space travel needs assistance. Any explanation that can say why human beings on a vehicle that seems built for terrestrial use, and never went into space, will do for starters. That is what I get out of Father Gils description. That is all that should factor.



Yes they are my words, and formed into a question! Gracious man! The craft has a viewing deck, basic engineering question, valid, and unanswered. Do you understand the size of space at all? I really recommend that you have a look at "The Elegant Universe" narrated by Brian Greene. I think it would clear up many things that you seem to be missing with regards to your environment.

A 35 foot craft with a viewing deck, and human beings on it it simply not ET! That is not something that can cross space according to physics! There is not enough room for occupants to spend so long in, no room for fuel, and no room for motors to generate propulsion to cross interstellar distances. The only way to overcome these hurdles is to make stuff up and pretend magical physics exist in some fantasy place.



Yes of course I want to go this route, do you think I posted the questions for decoration? Twice?

These are the basic physics hurdles this craft meets when claimed to be an Interstellar craft. It is that simple. You do not have to be a genius, you just need to tell  my theory, heck, and a hypothesis will more than suffice, that allows those factors to be overcome, and not just "Aliens can do anything".

Humans may well know things that ET's do not, and quite possibly ones that visit, Heck, for a start we know more about our planet! We live here!

ET does not have to be advanced, I am not sure why people insist this must always be the case. It's 50/50. ET could well be at exactly the same level of development as us, or behind, or in front. No scenario is favoured when we are considering what might be literally thousands of species we may someday contact.



You hypocrite! You chastised me for saying I ate the last Alien in another thread. You took that seriously! And I remain amazed as to how.

What indicates any part of your post is not serious? You seem quite hot under the collar that you cannot get me to say ET is a good candidate here. And it will remain that way unless you can tell me what in Father Gills description is, and can only be ET.

That is what you are proposing was it not? That because the Universe underwent inflation, that aliens reversed this effect  to create a 35 foot Interstellar manned ship?



No? Matter cannot be created? I think Higgs Bosun might disagree with you on that one. To a point you are correct, as Higgs transforms energy into matter, and I agree that energy is neither created not destroyed, but it can be converted into matter.
What happens when matter and anti matter meet? Annihilation. That is destruction of matter, and we have done it.

The total Universe is not inside a ship, so it's totality does not factor from what I can see. But there is a reason that Models such as the Sun and Jupiter are used on calculations concerning hypotheses regard warp travel. If that could be managed into a 35 foot craft, I imagine the world would not have energy problems any longer. We have immediate need for such, space travel would be down the line for us. If we could do this, we would not be burning oil. Only a black hole I think might be able to manage such power in such a small space? However, the very nature of the black hole would crumple a 35 foot craft as well and absorb it, so it is a catch 22.



Not for interstellar journeys, and not for an conceivable terrestrial alien. The closest trip is till years, even at any workable percentage of c. It is too small to hold food for such a journey, and it is too small for proper exercise to stop muscle atrophication. Try spending a weekend in a 3 man tent with two other men, and do not leave it. Then imagine decades of that. It is not a matter of squishing beings in like sardines, they need to move, eat, drink and take a dump. Or you will end up with a vehicle full of dead astronauts at your destination.

you sound quite mad, if I am not mistaken. I wouldn't dare dream of convincing you of anything. I am not a miracle worker.

I already put your outlandish explanation last on the list of possibilities. It would be unwise to spend anymore time on a dead end.
I like to move forward and explore some other more likely options. If your skeptical mind keep you glued to the time travelling theory, then it's your choice. If you want to stuck in one place and not move forward toward a more open mind, it's your choice.

Here's some more possible options. If i missed anything, please feel free to add.

1. Human from the past? at least it's more plausible than from the future. If somehow, human acquired near speed of light travel then this is possible. Let say these human spend many years travelling the stars and came back to earth. They would end up in the "future". They would age slower than the people on earth, so in a sense, they came back to the future. As far as we know, we still use rocket power, so this scenario is unlikely without ET. This is where the Ancient Aliens guys could make better argument then me. Could the aliens shared the tech with human then take it away because human are irresponsible with the tech? :hmm:

2. Human from the presence(at the time)? then black ops have to involved. It is likely that human are capable of such tech at the time? to show themselves to the locals? unlikely

3. ET? possibly as mentioned by many before.

4. Outright lies? possibly, more likely than human from da future

50/50 two options involve ET, two without. If there's more please feel free to add.

i am out.


#137    SwampgasBalloonBoy

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:28 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 30 January 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:


Quote

Underneath it had four legs in pairs pointing diagonally downwards these appeared to be fixed, not retractable, and looked the same on the two nights - rather like tripods.



Ah, thanks. I guess it was build for landing afterall. Those ETs, they thought of everything didn't they? :nw:


#138    psyche101

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:58 AM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 30 January 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

you sound quite mad, if I am not mistaken. I wouldn't dare dream of convincing you of anything. I am not a miracle worker.

Quite mad? as in mad scientist or annoyed? As such, I am not sure of you are mistaken!

One does not need to be a miracle worker. One just need logic. ET is not logical according to Father Gill's description from what we know.

I was convinced MOGUL was the best explanation for Roswell, but when Lost Shaman offered an alternative hypothesis, I tried to break it and could not. In the end I did concede that the hypothesis trumps all put forth to date, and personally, I cannot falsify it. As such, I submit to logic. Logic does not put ET in Father Gills recollection.

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 30 January 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

I already put your outlandish explanation last on the list of possibilities. It would be unwise to spend anymore time on a dead end.
I like to move forward and explore some other more likely options. If your skeptical mind keep you glued to the time travelling theory, then it's your choice. If you want to stuck in one place and not move forward toward a more open mind, it's your choice.

Yes, you did put it last, and ET first, but from what I can see from your argument, only based on personal preference.

Do you actually read my posts, or do you just skim them and pick out somethings you like to discuss on your terms? This is twice in a row now that I have had to correct you in some basics. Considering you saying I am dead set on yime travel, and nothing else, I would like tyo pull this from the very post you quoted.

Quote

You just do not get it do you.

It is not an explanation  it is a filler, a quick fix, the first thing that came into my head when considering what men might be doing on a vehicle that appears to be built for terrestrial observation, with human beings on it that has exceptional performance capabilities described  In short, taking Father Gill's words at face value, and trying to fing square pegs to put in square holes. ET is a round peg.

What time paradox? None exist in Father Gills description, not being rude, but do you understand temporal paradoxes, and how many their are? If we do have a paradox here, is it the Grandfather paradox, or the rolling film paradox? If it is the latter, what does that affect?

How on earth could you miss this??? You quoted this very post?? Again. are you being deliberately obtuse, or are you genuinely getting this wrong so often? If the latter, I strongly suggest you slow down, and read the post more carefully before responding.

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 30 January 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

Here's some more possible options. If i missed anything, please feel free to add.

1. Human from the past? at least it's more plausible than from the future. If somehow, human acquired near speed of light travel then this is possible. Let say these human spend many years travelling the stars and came back to earth. They would end up in the "future". They would age slower than the people on earth, so in a sense, they came back to the future. As far as we know, we still use rocket power, so this scenario is unlikely without ET. This is where the Ancient Aliens guys could make better argument then me. Could the aliens shared the tech with human then take it away because human are irresponsible with the tech? :hmm:

Great, but which experiment? Did we every actually try to attain a percentage of c? I know Project Orion intended to do so, but as far as I am aware, were halted by the Nuclear test ban treaty. If you can dig up one manned Orion test flight, or something like that, you have a starter.

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 30 January 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

2. Human from the presence(at the time)? then black ops have to involved. It is likely that human are capable of such tech at the time? to show themselves to the locals? unlikely

I do believe that I have already proposed such, but the OP decided he had enough knowledge of our secret systems to discount such. Personally, I do not believe that is the honest truth. I think it is a claim made to appear as though this angle has actually been adressed, when it has not. Look up at the post to Lord V. That is a snazzy little item there, capable of all Father Gill described  and then some. Even in rough weather. But lets face it, the device is 50 years or so out of date. Could the Hiller platform have inspired something like the above? More than just that one man simple platform, other designs were tried, but not much information is forthcoming, some digging might well show something up. I will see what I can do, as I am enjoying the trip through history concerning this inventive attempt at flights.

Posted ImagePosted Image


Considering the above, an experiment such as the below really does not strike me as an impossible suggestion.


Posted Image

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 30 January 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

3. ET? possibly as mentioned by many before.

Even when you are looking at alternatives, you just cannot stay away can you. This is the problem, you personally do not want ET out of the picture. Many do not. Stories like this offer comfort to the faithful.

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 30 January 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

4. Outright lies? possibly, more likely than human from da future

I already offered this one too. More likely than aliens too. Priests do not drink though do they? I am not sure if kava is restricted under that rule though. Kava might give the priest a unique perspective of the situation.

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 30 January 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

50/50 two options involve ET, two without. If there's more please feel free to add.

i am out.

No they do not, I fail to see why ET is needed in Option One?? We are quite capable of Nuclear Propulsion, I suggest you have a look om Wiki at Project Orion. We have been able to make starships bing enough to hold up to 800 people and achieve approximately 8-10% the speed of light. This was back in the late 50's and early 60's the project is recognised to have ended due to the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. Option three, you did not qualify ET at all, you just stuck him in there, and that is the problem with this case. People just assume that because the craft had unusual performance characteristics that this is ET. That is not an explanation, that is a logical fallacy.

And I already offered another one - delegation of fat cats from Skunkworks, maybe DARPA. Sort of black ops, but with a private enterprise twist.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#139    psyche101

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:59 AM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 30 January 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

Ah, thanks. I guess it was build for landing afterall. Those ETs, they thought of everything didn't they? :nw:


Come on, be honest man!

You simply missed that part in the description didn't you?

That is the big problem here. Most are not considering Father Gill at all. They are taking his story, and making a new one up with it.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#140    quillius

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:11 AM

Still trying to dig into this one. What do you guys think about the earlier sighting (5 days prior I believe) by Stephen Moi?

There is suggestion that its the same craft, however I would note that Stephens 'craft' was described as having 4 black holes underneath...is this were the legs came out from? if so then they are retractable, even though the father said he thought they were fixed...not sure how he could have determined this aspect, plsu I dont know of its relevance. I do feel the earlier sighting is relevant however and more info may be gained from digging further here.

Here is another interesting link that has some more detail (also on the Stephen sighting).

http://malcolmsanoma...-gills-own.html

and heres another transcript from an interview with father Gill (not sure if this has already been posted but I could not find it if it had...

http://www.ufocasebo...linterview.html


Two aspects I find interesting are the lack of sound and also the glow around the 'beings'....the glow in particular may well work against 'humans'? thoughts?

edit to add: oh actually, one more quick point....38 witnesses yet only 25 signed the statements? did they not get a clear view? did they not agree with descriptions?

Edited by quillius, 30 January 2013 - 10:21 AM.


#141    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:31 PM

View Postquillius, on 30 January 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Still trying to dig into this one. What do you guys think about the earlier sighting (5 days prior I believe) by Stephen Moi?

There is suggestion that its the same craft, however I would note that Stephens 'craft' was described as having 4 black holes underneath...is this were the legs came out from? if so then they are retractable, even though the father said he thought they were fixed...not sure how he could have determined this aspect, plsu I dont know of its relevance. I do feel the earlier sighting is relevant however and more info may be gained from digging further here.

Here is another interesting link that has some more detail (also on the Stephen sighting).

http://malcolmsanoma...-gills-own.html

and heres another transcript from an interview with father Gill (not sure if this has already been posted but I could not find it if it had...

http://www.ufocasebo...linterview.html


Two aspects I find interesting are the lack of sound and also the glow around the 'beings'....the glow in particular may well work against 'humans'? thoughts?

edit to add: oh actually, one more quick point....38 witnesses yet only 25 signed the statements? did they not get a clear view? did they not agree with descriptions?
if one wanted to speculate (and we know that would never do :innocent: ), one might suggest things like force fields and that kind of thing, perhaps instead of needing spacesuits or oxygen masks (or their equivalent), they surround themselves with a sort of energy field. This might explain why the "open deck" would not be a problem.
Alternatvely, it might of course be one of those colourful details that are added later to spice it up a bit. :santa:
The lack of sound would suggest that there was some esoteric form of propulsion being used, or perhaps that it might have been some sort of Blimp or Lighter than Air craft?

Edited by Lord Vetinari, 30 January 2013 - 03:34 PM.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


Posted Image


#142    quillius

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 03:45 PM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 30 January 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

if one wanted to speculate (and we know that would never do :innocent: ), one might suggest things like force fields and that kind of thing, perhaps instead of needing spacesuits or oxygen masks (or their equivalent), they surround themselves with a sort of energy field. This might explain why the "open deck" would not be a problem.
Alternatvely, it might of course be one of those colourful details that are added later to spice it up a bit. :santa:
The lack of sound would suggest that there was some esoteric form of propulsion being used, or perhaps that it might have been some sort of Blimp or Lighter than Air craft?

I didnt think you were the speculative type Lord Vetinari, now had you met 747 you would know all about speculation :whistle: (said in jest BTW)

thats why individual statements would have been so much more beneficial than a multiple signed single document.


#143    bison

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:58 PM

Yes, I agree, the reported silence of the object at such a short distance seems to rule out motors, engines, propellors, fans, jets or rockets. That leaves no conventional explanation, except, as noted, a blimp or other aerostat. This appears to be ruled out by Rev. Gill's report that the object departed  at "immense speed".

Edited by bison, 30 January 2013 - 09:00 PM.


#144    psyche101

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:15 PM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 30 January 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

if one wanted to speculate (and we know that would never do :innocent: ),

I beg your pardon?

View PostLord Vetinari, on 29 January 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

... and introducing a time machine isn't....?

View PostLord Vetinari, on 30 January 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

one might suggest things like force fields and that kind of thing, perhaps instead of needing spacesuits or oxygen masks (or their equivalent), they surround themselves with a sort of energy field. This might explain why the "open deck" would not be a problem.
Alternatvely, it might of course be one of those colourful details that are added later to spice it up a bit. :santa:

I think the latter well covers the former. That is the thing, I speculated time travellers because the craft appears to be designed for terrestrial use, it never went into space, and had human beings on it, according to the information that we have.

From what I gather, this is ET, IF as mother ship exists, if it has force fields, if the description of human beings is incorrect, if the human seen were different from the waist down, if the, if the, if the.............


See what I mean? This is where I am hitting a wall with SGBB. It is assumed ET, and what else do we need to make that work, instead of going, "What is it?"

View PostLord Vetinari, on 30 January 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

The lack of sound would suggest that there was some esoteric form of propulsion being used, or perhaps that it might have been some sort of Blimp or Lighter than Air craft?

I really do not feel you can say that not knowing the form of propulsion. Can a hiller flying platform be heard at 300-400 feet? And in intermittent weather? I honestly do not know, but if you can advise, I would more than interested to peruse any supporting information.

Father Gill said:

Quote

They were not noticeable at first - they came down, the object came down at about, I should say, 400 feet, maybe 450 feet, perhaps less, maybe 300 feet.


Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#145    SwampgasBalloonBoy

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:18 PM

View Postquillius, on 30 January 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Still trying to dig into this one. What do you guys think about the earlier sighting (5 days prior I believe) by Stephen Moi?

There is suggestion that its the same craft, however I would note that Stephens 'craft' was described as having 4 black holes underneath...is this were the legs came out from? if so then they are retractable, even though the father said he thought they were fixed...not sure how he could have determined this aspect, plsu I dont know of its relevance. I do feel the earlier sighting is relevant however and more info may be gained from digging further here.

Here is another interesting link that has some more detail (also on the Stephen sighting).

http://malcolmsanoma...-gills-own.html

and heres another transcript from an interview with father Gill (not sure if this has already been posted but I could not find it if it had...

http://www.ufocasebo...linterview.html


Two aspects I find interesting are the lack of sound and also the glow around the 'beings'....the glow in particular may well work against 'humans'? thoughts?

edit to add: oh actually, one more quick point....38 witnesses yet only 25 signed the statements? did they not get a clear view? did they not agree with descriptions?

The sighting 5 days prior most likely are connected, could be some kind of reconnaissance before more ships arrived.

the glow thing might be some force field to protect them from exposure to the unknown. their way of quarantine


#146    psyche101

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:27 PM

View Postquillius, on 30 January 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

I didnt think you were the speculative type Lord Vetinari, now had you met 747 you would know all about speculation :whistle: (said in jest BTW)

thats why individual statements would have been so much more beneficial than a multiple signed single document.

Gidday Mate

I was thinking the same thing about the statement. The Mokele Mbembe claim comes to mind.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#147    1963

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 02:06 AM

View Postquillius, on 30 January 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Still trying to dig into this one. What do you guys think about the earlier sighting (5 days prior I believe) by Stephen Moi?

There is suggestion that its the same craft, however I would note that Stephens 'craft' was described as having 4 black holes underneath...is this were the legs came out from? if so then they are retractable, even though the father said he thought they were fixed...not sure how he could have determined this aspect, plsu I dont know of its relevance. I do feel the earlier sighting is relevant however and more info may be gained from digging further here.

Here is another interesting link that has some more detail (also on the Stephen sighting).

http://malcolmsanoma...-gills-own.html

and heres another transcript from an interview with father Gill (not sure if this has already been posted but I could not find it if it had...

http://www.ufocasebo...linterview.html


Two aspects I find interesting are the lack of sound and also the glow around the 'beings'....the glow in particular may well work against 'humans'? thoughts?

edit to add: oh actually, one more quick point....38 witnesses yet only 25 signed the statements? did they not get a clear view? did they not agree with descriptions?

Hi Quillius!, and before I start, Yes my friend the first link is in the opening post. lol.

The chronology of the sightings are, as I understand....

The Reverend Cruttwell states that there were 79 incidents of UFO reports from the region within a few months around the famous Father Gill encounter,...but as to the incident in question, the first anomalous sighting was actually made by Father Gill himself [and an unspecified number of people in the 16ft launch!...probably a couple of rowers?]  at 6.5o pm on the 29th of april, when he was in a boat coming back to the mission from a visit to an outstation. And he saw a bright light that though he wasn't taking much notice of.. thought was obviously moving around the mountains. He initially thought that it was someone with a 'Tilley Lamp'....but after he had examined the area in question in daylight, the next day...he realised that this couldn't be the answer!?

Then on the 21st June came the Stephen Moi Saucer that had the four black spots on the underside. His sighting lasted roughly 3 minutes, and the 'inverted saucer' came as low as 100ft and stopped still for about half a minute, and then flew up and disappeared into the clouds.

And then it was five days later on the 26th.27th/28th  that the main three days of the case that we have already discussed occurred.

Your point about the reverend stating that he thought the landing gear [legs] were fixed has also crossed my mind as it contradicted a little theory of mine, that is that the main craft seen, could quite easily have been the same craft that was witnessed by Ernest Evennett 15-18 miles away at Giwa. ...The article rejects this possibility on the grounds that the two separate and independent incidents occurred at roughly the same time on the same day!...But according to the time's given for Mr Evennett's sighting, and the time's shown in Father Gill's on-the-spot notes show that it was in fact very possible!...ie, Father Gill's record for the 26th show that at 7.20 pm "the disk goes through the clouds and doesn't reappear until 8.28 pm"...and Mr Evennett states that his encounter was at between 7.15 and 7.30!
To my mind there are a number of similarities between the two craft's, and the landing gear [legs] may have been retractable after all,..but that may just be me, putting two and two together and making five?...because there is a bigger stumbling-block to the two UFO's being the same...and that is the size of the craft?...Father Gill's estimate of about 35ft being only half that of Mr Evennett's 60-80ft.!...and so perhaps they were two separate entities after all. ..But still interesting that the two accounts from people that didn't even know each other corroborate the fact that there were indeed anomalous machines flying around the region at that time!

Also , and perhaps even more interesting is the report given by Assistant District Officer, in charge of Baniara subdistrict, Milne Bay District of Papua. Mr. Ronald Orwin, from Milne Bay, Baniara . [17 miles from Boiani] ...about how He and his wife Orwin , and Mr.R L Smith, witnessed multiple UFO's , including a larger lazer-shining UFO and a disk object that at times seemed to disappear into a larger object [is this the mother ship?],  and these objects were observed by the witnesses for quite some' hours on the evenings of saturday 27th and sunday 28th june 1959.

And   from the Roman Catholic Mission at Sideia , 80- 90 miles south-east of Boiani. “At 8.30 p.m. on June 27th. (Boiani's second night, Baniara's first) two of the Brothers saw a large fiery object about half the size of the full moon in the western sky, moving slowly either down the western sky or away from the observers in a westerly direction. At one stage the object, of which the light appearing to diminish to a pinpoint, suddenly glowed brightly again. It turned blue before finally disappearing. The phenomenon lasted about 10 minutes”.


http://malcolmsanoma...ather.html#more


http://malcolmsanoma...-gills-own.html


....All very undeniably fascinating stuff dont you agree my friend?

anyway, it's bedtime for me!...so i'll get back to you later Buddy. :tu:


Cheers.

Edited by 1963, 31 January 2013 - 02:09 AM.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

#148    quillius

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:51 AM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 30 January 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

The sighting 5 days prior most likely are connected, could be some kind of reconnaissance before more ships arrived.

the glow thing might be some force field to protect them from exposure to the unknown. their way of quarantine

I too think they are connected.

as for the glow, can we think of any prosaic explanation? I think the suggestion that this is just a colourful detail added seems the only way to explain this element.


#149    quillius

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:54 AM

View Post1963, on 31 January 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

Hi Quillius!, and before I start, Yes my friend the first link is in the opening post. lol.

The chronology of the sightings are, as I understand....

The Reverend Cruttwell states that there were 79 incidents of UFO reports from the region within a few months around the famous Father Gill encounter,...but as to the incident in question, the first anomalous sighting was actually made by Father Gill himself [and an unspecified number of people in the 16ft launch!...probably a couple of rowers?]  at 6.5o pm on the 29th of april, when he was in a boat coming back to the mission from a visit to an outstation. And he saw a bright light that though he wasn't taking much notice of.. thought was obviously moving around the mountains. He initially thought that it was someone with a 'Tilley Lamp'....but after he had examined the area in question in daylight, the next day...he realised that this couldn't be the answer!?

Then on the 21st June came the Stephen Moi Saucer that had the four black spots on the underside. His sighting lasted roughly 3 minutes, and the 'inverted saucer' came as low as 100ft and stopped still for about half a minute, and then flew up and disappeared into the clouds.

And then it was five days later on the 26th.27th/28th  that the main three days of the case that we have already discussed occurred.

Your point about the reverend stating that he thought the landing gear [legs] were fixed has also crossed my mind as it contradicted a little theory of mine, that is that the main craft seen, could quite easily have been the same craft that was witnessed by Ernest Evennett 15-18 miles away at Giwa. ...The article rejects this possibility on the grounds that the two separate and independent incidents occurred at roughly the same time on the same day!...But according to the time's given for Mr Evennett's sighting, and the time's shown in Father Gill's on-the-spot notes show that it was in fact very possible!...ie, Father Gill's record for the 26th show that at 7.20 pm "the disk goes through the clouds and doesn't reappear until 8.28 pm"...and Mr Evennett states that his encounter was at between 7.15 and 7.30!
To my mind there are a number of similarities between the two craft's, and the landing gear [legs] may have been retractable after all,..but that may just be me, putting two and two together and making five?...because there is a bigger stumbling-block to the two UFO's being the same...and that is the size of the craft?...Father Gill's estimate of about 35ft being only half that of Mr Evennett's 60-80ft.!...and so perhaps they were two separate entities after all. ..But still interesting that the two accounts from people that didn't even know each other corroborate the fact that there were indeed anomalous machines flying around the region at that time!

Also , and perhaps even more interesting is the report given by Assistant District Officer, in charge of Baniara subdistrict, Milne Bay District of Papua. Mr. Ronald Orwin, from Milne Bay, Baniara . [17 miles from Boiani] ...about how He and his wife Orwin , and Mr.R L Smith, witnessed multiple UFO's , including a larger lazer-shining UFO and a disk object that at times seemed to disappear into a larger object [is this the mother ship?],  and these objects were observed by the witnesses for quite some' hours on the evenings of saturday 27th and sunday 28th june 1959.

And   from the Roman Catholic Mission at Sideia , 80- 90 miles south-east of Boiani. “At 8.30 p.m. on June 27th. (Boiani's second night, Baniara's first) two of the Brothers saw a large fiery object about half the size of the full moon in the western sky, moving slowly either down the western sky or away from the observers in a westerly direction. At one stage the object, of which the light appearing to diminish to a pinpoint, suddenly glowed brightly again. It turned blue before finally disappearing. The phenomenon lasted about 10 minutes”.


http://malcolmsanoma...ather.html#more


http://malcolmsanoma...-gills-own.html


....All very undeniably fascinating stuff dont you agree my friend?

anyway, it's bedtime for me!...so i'll get back to you later Buddy. :tu:


Cheers.


Hey Buddy, big oops on the link lol :blush: I think I have looked at so many sites and versions of this story since the OP I seemed to have got a little confused.

Thanks for the further links and info, I will keep digging away and see what I can find, but it is very fascinating and has me scratching my head. Thanks for presenting this case. :tu:


#150    1963

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:58 PM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 30 January 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

The sighting 5 days prior most likely are connected, could be some kind of reconnaissance before more ships arrived.

the glow thing might be some force field to protect them from exposure to the unknown. their way of quarantine


Yes in my humble opinion, both of your points are a distinct possibility Swampy. :tu:
And also it was the impression that Father Cruttwell formed from Father Gill's description that he gave in person after the event....



Father Cruttwell also makes it clear that Father Gill's only description of the entities on board the craft, was that he could only make out the silhouetted  upper-halves of figures because of the distance, and the light being behind them!, Which for my money, clearly makes a mockery of the "it's nothing to do with extraterrestrials , because they were obviously human" argument !

Cheers buddy.


View Postquillius, on 31 January 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

I too think they are connected.

as for the glow, can we think of any prosaic explanation? I think the suggestion that this is just a colourful detail added seems the only way to explain this element.


The connection seems a cert to me also Quillius!

And as for a prosaic explanation for the glow...besides the possibility of the effect being caused by some kind of electrical protective force-field, or indeed artificial-atmosphere?, ..I have also strongly entertained the idea that the slight 'glowing effect' that is nominally mentioned, could have been something as simple as being effected by the sunlight reflecting off the sheen of the colour of the craft ...it could conceivably to me at least also be a combination of ..that and the glow that was  repeatedly-reported to be emanating from the side-panels [portholes]?. :unsure:


Cheers buddy.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.




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