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Yes: there will be an EU In / Out referendum

eu referendum cameron

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#91    TheLastLazyGun

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:11 PM

View Postsmurf0852, on 30 January 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

it is pointless discussing this with the England flag waving types because we won the war don't you know tally ho chocks away .
arguing with this bunch of europhile   little Englanders is like trying to tell fire not to get hot .

I'd rather be a St George's Flag waver than a Hammer & Sickle waver.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 30 January 2013 - 04:11 PM.


#92    TheLastLazyGun

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:15 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 30 January 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

It appears that France, Italy, Poland, and Greece will refuse to re - negotiate terms with the UK, which require unanimity within the EU for agreement

As I've pointed out, do you really believe that the EU will not re-negotiate terms with the UK?  Whilst the UK threatens to leave the EU should the EU not listen to the UK's ways to make the EU better, the EU will listen to what the UK has to say.  The EU does not want the UK to leave due to the fact that the EU needs the UK.  Whilst the UK continues to threaten to leave the EU should its terms not be listened to, its terms WILL be listened to by the EU.

As this article states, the UK is currently holding all the aces:

This time, it’s us holding the aces on Europe

Simon Heffer
Daily Mail
29th January 2013

Quote

An early message from the Brussels powers was that they wanted all the UK’s fishing rights, even though the waters were entirely ours. London groaned. Very well, let them go.

Even land-locked Luxembourg gets a share, but ignore that — just put in some delays to prevent British fishermen thinking they have been sold out overnight.

Brussels wanted us to sign up to the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP), the system by which France underpins its farmers with massive subsidies and high prices

Very well, said London, surrender as gracefully as possible. Please extract some promises that the CAP will be radically reformed in due course, if not before, or at any rate eventually.

The Common Market’s negotiators got excited. It was all proving so easy. Perhaps we could deem North Sea oil, like Britain’s fishing waters, ‘a community resource’ — in other words, belonging to the countries represented at Brussels.

At last, Heath stood firm. MPs and voters would be outraged, he responded. So that idea never got up any steam.



Quote

Now we have a new prospect. The UK can set about undoing the damage of the past half-century, not just in farming and fishing, but in all those crazy regulations from Brussels.

They affect every sphere of our lives, from selling bananas to hours of work, and apart from often being very, very silly, impose severe costs on the business world.

This time it is we who hold all the aces. German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s reaction to David Cameron’s speech was condescending: ‘We are prepared to talk about British wishes.’

This was seen by some British commentators as genuinely helpful.

How can they be so naive? What choice does she or any other EU leader have?

While we are about it, observe this simple statistic: last year for the first time, the UK became Germany’s biggest trading partner for goods and services, edging ahead of France and the U.S.

Yes, our trade matters to the whole EU, and is in any case covered by the European Economic Area agreement (separate from the Treaty of Rome and its b****** descendants).

Apart from which, difficult as our economic position may be these days, it is even worse for most EU countries where the euro constantly threatens to unravel dramatically.

And politically? Ah, that’s where our exit threat provides true leverage. If we were to leave the Union, the grandest scheme of them all, the project for a United States of Europe, collapses. It would go down in history as a spectacular flop, a grand alliance shorn of democratic endorsement or political foresight.

The threat to leave is a veritable sword of Damocles that will hang over the EU until the referendum itself. It will make the Brussels powers anxious to placate us.



Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz2JTbIHAQf

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 30 January 2013 - 04:27 PM.


#93    shadowhive

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:25 PM

View PostTheLastLazyGun, on 30 January 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

As I've pointed out, do you really believe that the EU will not re-negotiate terms with the UK?  Whilst the UK threatens to leave the EU should the EU not listen to the UK's ways to make the EU better, the EU will listen to what the UK has to say.

For that to happen both sides need to act like grown ups and sit down and talk it through. If both the our leaders and the EU leaders actualy sat and talked this out reasonably, we could come up with a mutually beneficial rellationship and maybe get the EU working better.

The problem is you've got UKIP and the like baying for this referendum regardess and you know what? That's not helping anything.I don't think this threat of leaving is going to help anyone, just make things much more difficult ad then both sides will lose out.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
We'll just keep on trying till we run out of cake
No one can tell you who you are
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#94    TheLastLazyGun

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:35 PM

View Postshadowhive, on 30 January 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

If both the our leaders and the EU leaders actualy sat and talked this out reasonably, we could come up with a mutually beneficial rellationship and maybe get the EU working better.

If anyone's not going to come to the table and talk, it will be the leaders of the other EU nations.  It is Britain, remember, which wants to put forward its views of how to make the EU better.  If the other nations don't want to listen then fine.  If that happens there will be only one outcome - Britain will leave.

Quote

The problem is you've got UKIP and the like baying for this referendum regardess and you know what?

UKIP are right to demand a referendum.  Despite the best efforts of Brussels Britain is still a democracy and it's time for the British people to have their say on whether or not they want to be part of the EUSSR.

There should be a referendum even if the EU does the right thing by re-negotiating terms with Britain and giving her back new powers, including the right - which all countries should have - to control her own waters and ban fishing fleets from the rest of the EU from entering British waters.

Quote

I don't think this threat of leaving is going to help anyone,

1)  It will either help the EU as a whole, because Britain's ideas to make the EU much better than it is will be listened to AND implemented due to the fact that Britain will almost certainly leave the EU should both of those not occur, or;

2)  It will benefit Britain because, if Britain's proposals to make the EU better are ignored, then Britain will simply leave the EU and it will be much better off for it.  And Britain can leave the EU without holding a referendum.

There is no way out of it for the rest of the EU.  Britain will win either way.  Either implement Britain's policies or Britain will leave the EU.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 30 January 2013 - 04:40 PM.


#95    A rather obscure Bassoon

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:28 PM

View Postshadowhive, on 30 January 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

For that to happen both sides need to act like grown ups and sit down and talk it through. If both the our leaders and the EU leaders actualy sat and talked this out reasonably, we could come up with a mutually beneficial rellationship and maybe get the EU working better.

The problem is you've got UKIP and the like baying for this referendum regardess and you know what? That's not helping anything.I don't think this threat of leaving is going to help anyone, just make things much more difficult ad then both sides will lose out.


View PostTheLastLazyGun, on 30 January 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

If anyone's not going to come to the table and talk, it will be the leaders of the other EU nations.  It is Britain, remember, which wants to put forward its views of how to make the EU better.  If the other nations don't want to listen then fine.  If that happens there will be only one outcome - Britain will leave.



UKIP are right to demand a referendum.  Despite the best efforts of Brussels Britain is still a democracy and it's time for the British people to have their say on whether or not they want to be part of the EUSSR.

There should be a referendum even if the EU does the right thing by re-negotiating terms with Britain and giving her back new powers, including the right - which all countries should have - to control her own waters and ban fishing fleets from the rest of the EU from entering British waters.



1)  It will either help the EU as a whole, because Britain's ideas to make the EU much better than it is will be listened to AND implemented due to the fact that Britain will almost certainly leave the EU should both of those not occur, or;

2)  It will benefit Britain because, if Britain's proposals to make the EU better are ignored, then Britain will simply leave the EU and it will be much better off for it.  And Britain can leave the EU without holding a referendum.

There is no way out of it for the rest of the EU.  Britain will win either way.  Either implement Britain's policies or Britain will leave the EU.

http://www.vernoncoleman.com/theeu.htm

Edited by shaddow134, 30 January 2013 - 06:35 PM.

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