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are aliens likely to exist or not?


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#91    psyche101

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:15 AM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 30 January 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

Kind of like a telephone isn't it? you can call someone if they don't have a phone.

Yes!!

As WOH pointed out, one hypothesis says you can only go back as far as when a species learns to time travel, and your analogy is spot on!

Posted Image

Stehen Hawking tried to test this, and left invitations for time travellers from Cambridge to join him for afternoon tea and discussion. No kidding. He set up the tea and goodies, and waited, and nobody showed up. That seems to indicate that at least contact is not something that is likely to happen, and just might support the above notion!




This is the methodology. Break it into little pieces, and see what we can lay out on the table.


LINK - The party that didn't go off with a Big Bang: Stephen Hawking held a party for time-travellers - but no-one turned up..
.


Quote

In the interview with Ars Technica, Hawking said: 'We are all travelling forward in time anyway. We can fast forward by going off in a rocket at high speed and return to find everyone on Earth much older or dead.
'Einstein's general theory of relativity seems to offer the possibility that we could warp space-time so much that we could travel back in time.
'However, it is likely that warping would trigger a bolt of radiation that would destroy the spaceship and maybe the space-time itself.'
Still, if at some time in the future (or back in the past), you find yourself talking to Prof Hawking at a party, you may ask him his views on people who have seen UFOs.
The response he gave to Ars Technica is: 'Evidence that intelligent life is very short-lived is that we don't seem to have been visited by extra terrestrials.
'I'm discounting claims that UFOs contain aliens. Why would they appear only to cranks and weirdos?



You think I am confusing? Read the above, and then this.


Quote

LINK - STEPHEN HAWKING: How to build a time machine

All you need is a wormhole, the Large Hadron Collider or a rocket that goes really, really fast


Hello. My name is Stephen Hawking. Physicist, cosmologist and something of a dreamer. Although I cannot move and I have to speak through a computer, in my mind I am free. Free to explore the universe and ask the big questions, such as: is time travel possible? Can we open a portal to the past or find a shortcut to the future? Can we ultimately use the laws of nature to become masters of time itself?
Time travel was once considered scientific heresy. I used to avoid talking about it for fear of being labelled a crank. But these days I'm not so cautious. In fact, I'm more like the people who built Stonehenge. I'm obsessed by time. If I had a time machine I'd visit Marilyn Monroe in her prime or drop in on Galileo as he turned his telescope to the heavens. Perhaps I'd even travel to the end of the universe to find out how our whole cosmic story ends.
To see how this might be possible, we need to look at time as physicists do - at the fourth dimension. It's not as hard as it sounds. Every attentive schoolchild knows that all physical objects, even me in my chair, exist in three dimensions. Everything has a width and a height and a length.






Is it possible or not? Even the smartest man in the world can give you both sides of that coin.

Edited by psyche101, 31 January 2013 - 01:18 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#92    SwampgasBalloonBoy

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:22 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 31 January 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

Yes!!

As WOH pointed out, one hypothesis says you can only go back as far as when a species learns to time travel, and your analogy is spot on!

Posted Image

Stehen Hawking tried to test this, and left invitations for time travellers from Cambridge to join him for afternoon tea and discussion. No kidding. He set up the tea and goodies, and waited, and nobody showed up. That seems to indicate that at least contact is not something that is likely to happen, and just might support the above notion!




This is the methodology. Break it into little pieces, and see what we can lay out on the table.


LINK - The party that didn't go off with a Big Bang: Stephen Hawking held a party for time-travellers - but no-one turned up..
.






You think I am confusing? Read the above, and then this.









Is it possible or not? Even the smartest man in the world can give you both sides of that coin.

I don't blame Hawking for dreaming about time travel. Unfortunately, a dream will sometime remain just that, a dream. Many great scientists before him had ,and many after him will come up with many, many hypothesis. Some will proven correct, many will fail.

His opinion on aliens or time travel is just his opinion. It's as relevant as any other person. In the case of ETs, perhaps even less. Many people know more about ETs or UFOs than him.

Quote

'I'm discounting claims that UFOs contain aliens. Why would they appear only to cranks and weirdos?

I find the above statement quite arrogance. Why would they appear to him and not "cranks and weirdos"? Is it because he's a famous scientist and they're nobody? I though he would be smart enough to figure out why. If we see a bunch of chimpanzee frolicking around, would we give a damn if one is smarter than the rest? To us, they're all chimp!


#93    Mentalcase

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:41 AM

The Universe is littered with life.


In a infinite Universe (where time never stops) any and every possibility will happen an infinite amount of times. Meaning you or I will be "alive" an infinite amount of times. Every atom of our body and every memory of our soul will repeat, guess how many times? (infinite). There will be an infinite amount of versions of us that aren't the same, with an infinite amount of different memories. Even those will have an infinite amount of copies. The same would apply to anything, anywhere in the Universe or Universes. Aliens abundant.

The question is Rhetorical, but so are all the most important questions. Too bad we will never possess the ability or technology to learn everything there is to know. If we could, we would create a black-hole that would swallow everything before we even had a chance to know. To detect even the smallest of "things", one would need a machine which is billions of times larger then it. We would basically have to bring all the matter in the Universe into one location, to possibly know anything. Which in turn would create a singularity. Which is impossible, obviously. :P

Edited by Mentalcase, 31 January 2013 - 03:44 AM.

http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/  <~Ancient Aliens DEBUNKED!
I think that it is much more likely that the reports of flying saucers are the results of the known irrational characteristics of terrestrial intelligence than of the unknown rational efforts of extra-terrestrial intelligence ~Richard Feynman http://www.myspace.com/7leafclover

#94    psyche101

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:01 AM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 31 January 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

I don't blame Hawking for dreaming about time travel. Unfortunately, a dream will sometime remain just that, a dream. Many great scientists before him had ,and many after him will come up with many, many hypothesis. Some will proven correct, many will fail.

He also came up with the theoretical possibility. He is not "dreaming" he is exploring. Massive difference. That will tell us if a thing is a dream or not. And this man is taking those initial steps. Ironic that he is in a wheelchair hey!

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 31 January 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

His opinion on aliens or time travel is just his opinion. It's as relevant as any other person.

Forgive me for dismissing your smug reply, but do you honestly claim to have the understanding of space, time, quantum mechanics, physics and math's that Professor Hawking does, and therefore are just as qualified to offer workable hypotheses on these subjects do you? How many types of singularity or singularity emissions have you discovered (which is required for wormhole style travel) ? Do you know what "Hawking Radiation" is?


Do you really feel you are on a level playing field with Professor Hawking do you?

Professor Hawking Colluded on the docufiction called Alien PLanet. Have you seen it by any chance?

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 31 January 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

In the case of ETs, perhaps even less. Many people know more about ETs or UFOs than him.

I just do not believe that. Please offer a name. If you say Stanton Friedman though, be warned I am going to punch you in the mouth before I die. No matter how far I have to go to do it. I think some here would hold you for me to be honest. The UFOlogy gurus that are heralded as brilliant are quite often very much the opposite. And simply riding a wave of ignorance. It is why UFOlogy wears a tin foil hat.


Quote

In his book, TOP SECRET/MAJIC, Friedman discusses his early UFO lectures:
"As I gave more lectures, I found that I enjoyed speaking, and that people believed me no matter what I said. After all, I was a nuclear physicist for Westinghouse…"


IMHO, Kevin Randle runs rings around Friedman.

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 31 January 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

I find the above statement quite arrogance. Why would they appear to him and not "cranks and weirdos"? Is it because he's a famous scientist and they're nobody?

Well, yes of course. Bloody hell, we can communicate, it is not like we a re chimps, we have not only mastered fire, we have left our own Solar System. Damn you UFO hippies like to put a downer on the human species as a whole! It is not arrogant one bit! It is arrogant to think some backyard hick who claims to have had sex with an Alien that turned into Pamela Anderson is telling the truth and that is how first contact would be made. If one is to believe the most outlandish stories, why stop there? Lets go back to Santa and the Easter Bunny, and Greek Gods.
Intelligent species implies some intelligence, and as we have mastered language and math there is no reason to consider that an Alien species cannot fathom a hierarchy. Surely someone that can cross space is not a complete idiot.

That Aliens could not tell the difference between a president, and some backyard hick says to me that Aliens are pretty stupid.  Even we can pick a Queen Bee out of a colony of thousands.

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 31 January 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

I though he would be smart enough to figure out why. If we see a bunch of chimpanzee frolicking around, would we give a damn if one is smarter than the rest? To us, they're all chimp!

It seems you not smart enough, and are on the same downer ETH'ers all are. Even my 8 year old can pick the queen ant in an ant farm. The ETH seems to make people also turn on their own species, and always consideres us the idiots of the Galaxy. No space faring species needs to be more advanced than us the possibility exists that they could be less advanced going by our own historical record.

It;s just another silly ETH assumption that  ET would be so advanced that we would not be worth considering. It's not about "Us" it's about knowledge, and if a species is nto concerned with knowledge I do not think they will be intelligent will they. ETH'ers try to bury this under a claim of vanity, but that is because they cannot see past their own noses. There is more to life than the human species, but that does not mean we are not part of it, and therefore as Apex predators on the planet, intensely interesting from any study angle of life on this planet.

ETA Links. Hope you can use them.

Edited by psyche101, 31 January 2013 - 04:19 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#95    DONTEATUS

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:14 AM

Looks for my tin foil hat ! It always helps with the fermage under my skull ! But as for Hawkings and his opinion on E.T !
Really ? Really ! you guys dont know yet ?
Hawkings is an Alien you remember that right !JUst look at the facts !THe CT`s are all over this topic  some where out there. Im sure of that ! :tu:

This is a Work in Progress!

#96    Likely Guy

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:18 AM

How did all this 'time travel' stuff come up? *Don't tell me, I think I know*

Are aliens likely to exist or not?

I maybe be wrong (correct me if you will) but the stars in the Universe are measured in the sextillions (i.e. that's a bowl full of cheerios). Most, not all, have planets that they host.

If you accept that all life forms don't have to be carbon based then there will be millions of life forms out there. Are they rudimentery life forms, life forms like us, or advanced life forms like we can't imagine?

If there are advanced life forms, have they already contacted us, don't care to contact us, don't know that we're even here, or are as yet unable to contact us because of the great distances?

ET contact could happen tomorrow, 1000 generations from now, or maybe never.

I do believe other life forms exist out there, just because of the statistical average. For the Earth to contain the only life in the Universe (while theoretically possible), is with all probability, impossible.

Edited by Likely Guy, 31 January 2013 - 04:20 AM.


#97    SwampgasBalloonBoy

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:28 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 31 January 2013 - 04:01 AM, said:

He also came up with the theoretical possibility. He is not "dreaming" he is exploring. Massive difference. That will tell us if a thing is a dream or not. And this man is taking those initial steps. Ironic that he is in a wheelchair hey!



Forgive me for dismissing your smug reply, but do you honestly claim to have the understanding of space, time, quantum mechanics, physics and math's that Professor Hawking does, and therefore are just as qualified to offer workable hypotheses on these subjects do you? How many types of singularity or singularity emissions have you discovered (which is required for wormhole style travel) ? Do you know what "Hawking Radiation" is?


Do you really feel you are on a level playing field with Professor Hawking do you?

Professor Hawking Colluded on the docufiction called Alien PLanet. Have you seen it by any chance?



I just do not believe that. Please offer a name. If you say Stanton Friedman though, be warned I am going to punch you in the mouth before I die. No matter how far I have to go to do it. I think some here would hold you for me to be honset. The UFOlogy gurus that are heralded as brilliant are quite often  very much the opposite. And simply riding a wave of ignorance. It is why UFOlogy wears a tin foil hat.

Where in my post do you see me claiming to be as smart as Hawking? In his field, people can say he's the best and I wouldn't disagreed with it. But somehow claiming he's an authority on ETs and UFOs is bs. Have he met any ETs? have he seen UFOs up close? As for the time travel stuff, it's a whole lot easier to think it's possible than actually making it a reality. If he can make it a reality, I will kiss his ass and proclaim him the smartest human of all time. Please excuse me If I respect a person that discovered a medication that save millions of life more than Dr. Hawking.

To be honest, there's a few person on this forum that know more about ETs and UFOs than Hawking.




View Postpsyche101, on 31 January 2013 - 04:01 AM, said:

Well, yes of course. Bloody hell, we can communicate, it is not like we a re chimps, we have not only mastered fire, we have left our own Solar System. Damn you UFO hippies like to put a downer on the human species as a whole! It is not arrogant one bit! It is arrogant to think some backyard hick who claims to have had sex with an Alien that turned into Pamela Anderson is telling the truth and that is how first contact would be made. If one is to believe the most outlandish stories, why stop there? Lets go back to Santa and the Easter Bunny, and Greek Gods.
Intelligent species implies some intelligence, and as we have mastered language and math there is no reason to consider that an Alien species cannot father a hierarchy. Surely someone that can cross space is not a complete idiot.

That Aliens could not tell the difference between a president, and some backyard hick says to me that Aliens are pretty stupid.  Even we can pick a Queen Bee out of a colony of thousands.



It seems you not smart enough, and are on the same downer ETH;er are. The ETH seems to make people also turn o their own species, and always consideres us the idiots of the Galaxy. No space faring species needs to be more advanced than us the possibility exists that they could be less advanced going by our own historical record.

It;s just another silly ETH assumption that  ET would be so advanced that we would not be worth considering. It's not about "Us" it's about knowledge, and if a species is nto concerned with knowledge I do not think they will be intelligent will they. ETH'ers try to bury this under a claim of vanity, but that is because they cannot see past their own noses. There is more to life than the human species.

Reality is reality. The weirdos in the wood have seen more UFOs than Hawking. Maybe they are more interesting than a guy in the wheelchair?
To somehow think that Hawking have more to offer ETs is quite arrogance. Maybe he can teach them a thing or two about space travel? Maybe there's some secret math equation that they need him to teach them?


#98    psyche101

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 04:29 AM

View PostLikely Guy, on 31 January 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

How did all this 'time travel' stuff come up? *Don't tell me, I think I know*

Are aliens likely to exist or not?

I maybe be wrong (correct me if you will) but the stars in the Universe are measured in the sextillions (i.e. that's a bowl full of cheerios). Most, not all, have planets that they host.

If you accept that all life forms don't have to be carbon based then there will be millions of life forms out there. Are they rudimentery life forms, life forms like us, or advanced life forms like we can't imagine?

If there are advanced life forms, have they already contacted us, don't care to contact us, don't know that we're even here, or are as yet unable to contact us because of the great distances?

ET contact could happen tomorrow, 1000 generations from now, or maybe never.

I do believe other life forms exist out there, just because of the statistical average. For the Earth to contain the only life in the Universe (while theoretically possible), is with all probability, impossible.

I agree contact could be tomorrow or never. But I sure hope the former applies, I just think communications will be the answer, not physical presence.

Other life froms have to exist, and considering we are looking for Earth Based Worlds, for life as we know it, I feel it is likely we will find Aliens rather familiar, considering convergeant evolution in our pool of one.

On non carbon based life froms, many studies have been undertaken. In fact. this idea goes back as far as 1891.


Quote

Silicon biochemistry?
At first sight, silicon does look like a promising organic alternative to carbon. It is common in the universe and is also a p-block element of group IV, lying directly below carbon in the periodic table of elements, so that much of its basic chemistry is similar. For instance, just as carbon combines with four hydrogen atoms to form methane, CH4, silicon yields silane, SiH4. Silicates are analogs of carbonates, silicon chloroform of chloroform, and so on. Both elements form long chains, or polymers, in which they alternate with oxygen. In the simplest case, carbon-oxygen chains yield polyacetal, a plastic used in synthetic fibers, while from a backbone of alternating atoms of silicon and oxygen come polymeric silicones.
Conceivably, some strange life-forms might be built from silicone-like substances were it not for an apparently fatal flaw in silicon's biological credentials. This is its powerful affinity for oxygen. When carbon is oxidized during the respiratory process of a terrestrial organism (see respiration), it becomes the gas carbon dioxide – a waste material that is easy for a creature to remove from its body. The oxidation of silicon, however, yields a solid because, immediately upon formation, silicon dioxide organizes itself into a lattice in which each silicon atom is surrounded by four oxygens. Disposing of such a substance would pose a major respiratory challenge.
Life-forms must also be able to collect, store, and utilize energy from their environment. In carbon-based biota, the basic energy storage compounds are carbohydrates in which the carbon atoms are linked by single bonds into a chain. A carbohydrate is oxidized to release energy (and the waste products water and carbon dioxide) in a series of controlled steps using enzymes. These enzymes are large, complex molecules (see proteins) which catalyze specific reactions because of their shape and "handedness." A feature of carbon chemistry is that many of its compounds can take right and left forms, and it is this handedness, or chirality, that gives enzymes their ability to recognize and regulate a huge variety of processes in the body. Silicon's failure to give rise to many compounds that display handedness makes it hard to see how it could serve as the basis for the many interconnected chains of reactions needed to support life.
The absence of silicon-based biology, or even silicon-based prebiotic chemicals, is also suggested by astronomical evidence. Wherever astronomers have looked – in meteorites, in comets, in the atmospheres of the giant planets, in the interstellar medium, and in the outer layers of cool stars – they have found molecules of oxidized silicon (silicon dioxide and silicates) but no substances such as silanes or silicones which might be the precursors of a silicon biochemistry.
Even so, it has been pointed out, silicon may have had a part to play in the origin of life on Earth. A curious fact is that terrestrial life-forms utilize exclusively right-handed carbohydrates and left-handed amino acids. One theory to account for this is that the first prebiotic carbon compounds formed in a pool of "primordial soup" on a silica surface having a certain handedness. This handedness of the silicon compound determined the preferred handedness of the carbon compounds now found in terrestrial life. An entirely different possibility is that of artificial life or intelligence with a significant silicon content.

LINK - Silicon Based Life


Quote

This line of reasoning is founded on two major assumptions; the first being that complex carbon chain molecules, the building blocks of life as we know it, have been detected throughout the interstellar medium.  Carbon’s abundance appears to stretch across much of cosmic time, since its production is thought to have peaked some 7 billion years ago, when the universe was roughly half its current age.
The other major assumption is that life needs an elixir, a solvent on which it can advance its unique complex chemistry.  Water and carbon go hand in hand in making this happen.
While the world as we know it runs on carbon, science fiction’s long flirtation with silicon-based life — “It’s life, but not as we know it” — has become a familiar catchphrase.  But life of any sort should evolve, eat, excrete, reproduce, and respond to stimulus.
And although non-carbon based life is a very long shot, we thought we’d broach the issue  with one of the country’s top astrochemists — Max Bernstein, the Research Lead of the Science Mission Directorate at NASA headquarters in Washington,D.C.
Bruce Dorminey — IS IT WRONG TO ASSUME THAT LIFE COULD BE BASED ON SOMETHING OTHER THAN CARBON?

Max Bernstein — It’s important for us to keep an open mind about alien life, lest we come across it and miss it. On the other hand, carbon is much better than any other element in forming the main structures of living things.  Carbon can form many stable complex structures of great diversity. When carbon forms molecules containing cxygen and nitrogen, the carbon bonds to nitrogen and oxygen are stable.  But not so much so that they can’t be fairly easily undone, unlike silicon-oxygen bonds, for example.

LINK - Why Silicon-based Aliens Would Rather Eat our Cities than Us: Thoughts on Non-carbon Astrobiology

Main problem seems to be that Carbon is just better. More flexible, more compatible, easier to work with. As such, it is likely to be the basic form of life.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#99    psyche101

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:15 AM

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 31 January 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Where in my post do you see me claiming to be as smart as Hawking?

Unless you claim you do not come under the title of "Any Other Person" and I believe that you do, then right here

Quote

His opinion on aliens or time travel is just his opinion. It's as relevant as any other person.

If your opinion is just as relevant, then I figure in this field, you figure you are just as smart.


View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 31 January 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

In his field, people can say he's the best and I wouldn't disagreed with it. But somehow claiming he's an authority on ETs and UFOs is bs.

How so? He has the knowledge to know what propulsion systems can do the trip, he spends his life trying to understand this stuff with a University at his beck and call. He has worked on Alien physiology  and as mentioned colluded with other great minds to come up with a likely scenarion for alien life under similar conditions to Earth.

How do you figure all this work in this very field accounts for nothing? Like I said, he discovered Hawking Radiation, a byproduct of a black hole, and the sort of power that is required to do things like make wormholes. He understood the principals of these major power sources so well that he defied conventional thinking to prove Hawking Radiation exists. He is already working with the hypotheses you and I are discussing. And paving the way.

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 31 January 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Have he met any ETs? have he seen UFOs up close?

Well you know what, I do not believe anyone has, but he has studied the WOW! signal, and this is as close as one can come in the real world where evidence matters. When you put all what we really have on the table, he is the closest candidate we have.

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 31 January 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

As for the time travel stuff, it's a whole lot easier to think it's possible than actually making it a reality. If he can make it a reality, I will kiss his ass and proclaim him the smartest human of all time.

Pucker up balloon boy. Because he is probably the smartest human of all time.

Are you not saying warp is just around the corner? But you are not cherry picking are you! ;)

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 31 January 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Please excuse me If I respect a person that discovered a medication that save millions of life more than Dr. Hawking.

There you go again with preferences. Common thing with believers. Many Doctors have saved lives, the most important IMHO being Ignaz Semmelweis. The saviour of mothers. Very different men, very different field, all outstanding accomplishments. As they have really nothing to do with each other, I see them as being brilliant in their own right in their own fields. I do not see why they need be compared at all to be perfectly frank. Or why one would choose preference? Is admiration metered?

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 31 January 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

To be honest, there's a few person on this forum that know more about ETs and UFOs than Hawking.

BS. Go ahead, name one.

That is just arrogance, and in my opinion a lie in order to flamebait. Not to mention something of a joke. And nothing honest about that statement at all. Not one thing.

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 31 January 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Reality is reality. The weirdos in the wood have seen more UFOs than Hawking. Maybe they are more interesting than a guy in the wheelchair?

They make that claim, I do not believe  it. In fact I think it shows poor judgement to believe it.

That is where you logic took you? Really? I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

Posted Image

And you know how you said above "To us they are all Chimps" well you are wrong about that too. You do not even look at zoology do you? One Chimp in history did have a Bipedal gait. He was bald, and looked very human like. He had no desire for female chimps, but took a powerful interest in human females. So much so that he had to be separated from some. He has been a focus of intense study and interest. His name is Oliver. Have you heard about him? He kinda blows your sentence out of the water. Many thought he was a human-chimp hybrid, but DNA revealed that he is 100% Chimp.

Posted Image

View PostSwampgasBalloonBoy, on 31 January 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

To somehow think that Hawking have more to offer ETs is quite arrogance. Maybe he can teach them a thing or two about space travel? Maybe there's some secret math equation that they need him to teach them?

Another ridiculous thing to say. Can you really not fathom why the smartest man in the world would be a good individual for an Aliens species, be they advanced or not? Do you only see humans in one direction? That we are here to speak out, show others, and pave the way? Have you no idea what being a student is? If we are dealing with an advanced species, would you not try communications with the individual that is most likely to understand you?

Nah, this chimp will do. My, that is not sounding very intelligent!

Edited by psyche101, 31 January 2013 - 05:18 AM.

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#100    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:04 AM

Quote

"'Evidence that intelligent life is very short-lived is that we don't seem to have been visited by extra terrestrials.
'I'm discounting claims that UFOs contain aliens. Why would they appear only to cranks and weirdos?"

What an extraordinary thing to say. It does seem extraordinarily arrogant to describe every single person who's ever had an experience with UFOs as a crank or a Wierdo. I'd really thought better of him, I thought that he wasn't the kind of arrogant "populariser of science" like Richard Dawkins. And "'Evidence that intelligent life is very short-lived is that we don't seem to have been visited by extra terrestrials"? Sorry? Does that make anys ense at al? We haven't (as far as he is concerned) been visited by extra Terrestrials, so that's evidence that intellignt life is very short lived? However does he draw that conclusion? :unsure2:

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#101    Frank Merton

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:11 AM

I disagree with his characterization, but I think his conclusion makes good sense.  We really don't seem to have been visited in any way that is not subject to more mundane alternative explanations.


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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:19 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 31 January 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

I disagree with his characterization, but I think his conclusion makes good sense.  We really don't seem to have been visited in any way that is not subject to more mundane alternative explanations.
So that's proof that Intelligent life is very short lived? I presume he must base that on the assumption that any ET civilisation, as soon as they knew that there was "civilisation" on this planet, would head straight here  because they couldn't wait to meet us. Well, how would they know that there was "Civilisation" here, if they didn't do some preliminary reconnaisance? Perhaps that's what they're still doing, perhaps they study any civlisation they discover very carefully first before deciding to make Contact; or maybe they decided not to make Contact officially yet, since they decided that we're not likely to either be of any benefit to them or any danger to them for a long time yet. Does he assume that because he's Earth's greatest genius, then ETs would want to make contact with him first, even if they didn't want to make contact with our Governments? i'm afraid that does sound rather arrogant.

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#103    Frank Merton

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:25 AM

I think "short lived" is a relative thing -- relative to the time the present cosmos has existed, several million years is a short time.

If they are out there but can't or don't visit us for some reason, the conclusion is basically the same.  This does seem unlikely, and saying that they aren't there is more reasonable, and why wouldn't they be there, well, considering that they surely have evolved, the most reasonable reason is that they are short lived.

This is of course all speculation.  I would be delighted (assuming it goes well) if they landed on the White House Lawn and proved this wrong.  It would take that sort of event to be persuasive, though.


#104    Zaphod222

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:44 AM

Likely to "exist" in an infinite universe? Yes.
LIkely to be humans with funky faces like in Startreck, or likely to come here in flying saucers and make crop circles? Absolutely no.

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#105    SwampgasBalloonBoy

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:35 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 31 January 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

Unless you claim you do not come under the title of "Any Other Person" and I believe that you do, then right here



If your opinion is just as relevant, then I figure in this field, you figure you are just as smart.

Quote

'I'm discounting claims that UFOs contain aliens. Why would they appear only to cranks and weirdos?
I am sorry, but that^^^^^^ is an opinion. An opinion on a subject he sure as hell is not an expert on. I don't care how much you claimed he is an expert on UFOs and ETs, he is not! For that reason, I don't put his opinion above anyone else. And for him to dismissed it completely because they only appear to "cranks and weirdos" is arrogance. Another reason why I don't put more weight on his opinion regarding the subject than anyone else.


View Postpsyche101, on 31 January 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

How so? He has the knowledge to know what propulsion systems can do the trip, he spends his life trying to understand this stuff with a University at his beck and call. He has worked on Alien physiology  and as mentioned colluded with other great minds to come up with a likely scenarion for alien life under similar conditions to Earth.

How do you figure all this work in this very field accounts for nothing? Like I said, he discovered Hawking Radiation, a byproduct of a black hole, and the sort of power that is required to do things like make wormholes. He understood the principals of these major power sources so well that he defied conventional thinking to prove Hawking Radiation exists. He is already working with the hypotheses you and I are discussing. And paving the way.

He can sit there and talk about how it's theoretically possible to travel back in time until the cows come home, but until it's a reality, it shall remain just speculations. Here's his quote from the link you provided, Psyche.

Quote


'I have experimental evidence that time travel is not possible.
'I gave a party for time-travellers, but I didn't send out the invitations until after the party.
'I sat there a long time, but no one came.'

As you know, I am a skeptic of time travel. I should be happy with the fruitless outcome his little experiment. But I wouldn't dare completely dismiss it the way he did. This again show his arrogance. Even though time travel sound ridiculous to me, I am still open to the possibility. Even if the possibility is 0.0000000000000000000000000000001%.
What if in the future men somehow acquired the ability to time travel, they also discovered that their action would also alter the future. They did received his invitation but decided not to show up because it would change the future as they know it. Just because they didn't show up to his party doesn't mean it's an impossibility. I though he would be smart enough to come up with this possibility. Maybe he did, since he is much smarter than all of us, but the writer didn't put it in the story.

Since ETs only appear to the "cranks and weirdos", Nope! they don't exist.
Since no one showed up to my party, Nope! time travel is impossible.
^^^^^^quite arrogance, don't you think?

View Postpsyche101, on 31 January 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

Well you know what, I do not believe anyone has, but he has studied the WOW! signal, and this is as close as one can come in the real world where evidence matters. When you put all what we really have on the table, he is the closest candidate we have.
This is your opinion and you are entitle to it. But do you really think everyone who've seen UFOs/ETs are liars? This is quite cynical. I don't see any reason to believe every single story is false.



View Postpsyche101, on 31 January 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

Pucker up balloon boy. Because he is probably the smartest human of all time.

Are you not saying warp is just around the corner? But you are not cherry picking are you! ;)

Again, you are entitled to your opinion. He is a brilliant man, but I doubt he is the smartest of all time. Hell, I don't think he is even the smartest now. How do you measure who is the smartest anyway? I think it's quite disrespectful to the many brilliant minds all over the world who are doing amazing things in their own right. He is a "weird looking scientist with a brilliant mind", I am sure the press love it.  A brief history of time is not all time.

I will kiss his ass when he make time travel a reality.


View Postpsyche101, on 31 January 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

BS. Go ahead, name one.

That is just arrogance, and in my opinion a lie in order to flamebait. Not to mention something of a joke. And nothing honest about that statement at all. Not one thing.
Regarding the subject of ETs and UFOs? you damn right there are better sources than Dr Hawking. What about Jim Oberg? I am sure Oberg can identify space debris better than Hawking. What about MacGuffin? With all the info he provided, I sure as hell gonna take his opinion over Hawking. What about you, Psyche? even though you're a skeptic, you've read enough on the ETs/UFOs cases to be able to tell him a thing or two. Remember, this ain't physics and mathematics.



View Postpsyche101, on 31 January 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

They make that claim, I do not believe  it. In fact I think it shows poor judgement to believe it.

That is where you logic took you? Really? I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

Posted Image

And you know how you said above "To us they are all Chimps" well you are wrong about that too. You do not even look at zoology do you? One Chimp in history did have a Bipedal gait. He was bald, and looked very human like. He had no desire for female chimps, but took a powerful interest in human females. So much so that he had to be separated from some. He has been a focus of intense study and interest. His name is Oliver. Have you heard about him? He kinda blows your sentence out of the water. Many thought he was a human-chimp hybrid, but DNA revealed that he is 100% Chimp.

Posted Image

Oliver's got good taste doesn't he? Maybe human females smell better than chimp. :lol: This kind of prove my point, actually.
No matter how smart Oliver might be, we still treat him like a chimp. If he wanted some human females, why not let him have some? why do we got to be mean and force female chimps on him? :D If you get a chance to play with Oliver, Psyche. In the back of your mind, would you think "this guy could rip my head clean off at anytime"? To us, he'll always remain an unpredictable wild animal.



View Postpsyche101, on 31 January 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

Another ridiculous thing to say. Can you really not fathom why the smartest man in the world would be a good individual for an Aliens species, be they advanced or not? Do you only see humans in one direction? That we are here to speak out, show others, and pave the way? Have you no idea what being a student is? If we are dealing with an advanced species, would you not try communications with the individual that is most likely to understand you?

Nah, this chimp will do. My, that is not sounding very intelligent!

If ETs want to share their knowledge with human, then yes, Hawking would be a damn good candidate. If they dont want to let the rest of the world know, then "hicks in the wood" is the perfect choice. Can you imagine if Hawking come out and said "I've been abducted by ETs, they're here, they exist!" You would believe him, wouldn't you? And so would most of the world, I hope. They would be exposed. But since they don't want the world to know but at the same time want specimens for their experiments, then the hicks is the perfect choice. Who would believe the hicks? The "weirdos" have no credibility as compared to someone like Hawking. Who they want depend on their intentions, not us.

Edited by SwampgasBalloonBoy, 31 January 2013 - 11:36 PM.





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