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Are there any true sense of right and wrong?


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#1    Turecast

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:16 PM

Are there morals or  just what the people in charge declare or are there really true morals and as humans do we truly follow them?


#2    Coffey

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:28 PM

View PostTurecast, on 23 January 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Are there morals or  just what the people in charge declare or are there really true morals and as humans do we truly follow them?

I think that the "people in charge" loosely try to base laws on morals. I certainly follow my morals. I am a very moral person and try to help others when I can and try not to harm people as much as possible. (obviously accidents happen)

People are all different though. You get some people who only have "morals" because of their religion and do things out of fear, then you get others who will put morals before their religion, even if it goes against their religion. Then you get people who believe their morals are right even though others disagree.

The fact is people can have different opinions on what's right and wrong which means peoples morals will differ.

It's hard to tell what would truly be right and wrong. Especially if you take Nature/instinct, Freedom/freewill, Religion, empathy and politics into the equation. lol

Edited by Coffey, 23 January 2013 - 07:29 PM.

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#3    GreenmansGod

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:02 PM

It is called ethics, most people do follow them for the most part, unless money, love, religion get in the way.

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#4    wolfknight

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:09 PM

Yes people do change. Sometime it is a coming of age thing. Something in they're life causes them to change.  I know I have many many changes in my lifetime. Good to Bad Bad to Good.


#5    The Id3al Experience

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:19 PM

There is no absolute right or wrong, for some things, thought right, were considered wrong for generations, since the value of rightousness may be recogized after centuries.

Watch this space

#6    Hasina

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:24 PM

Same goes for 'good' and 'evil'. They don't exist but they make use feel better when something 'bad' happens or when something 'good' happens. It's all opinion, fluff, and outright lies and myths. Things just are.

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#7    Sean93

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:41 PM

Some call them 'Objective Moral Values' - The hypothesis goes that we all know when something is intrinsically good or bad, like a rape; we all know internally that it's bad to do. But do we really? No. There are people who have no qualms with their inner voice at the thought of raping or murdering, it really does not phase them. Sure for most people rape and murder are indeed wrong, but for some it's nothing but a rule to be broken, a misdemeanor that we mammals have created, and thus I don't believe Objective Morality to be true.

Saying that the Law decides whether something is wrong or not is not good enough because our laws are merely figments of human society and progression. If this logic was accepted, then the UK legislature would be full of pedophiles according to American law. Why? Because the age of consent in the UK is 16 while for most US states, the age is 18. So you see...we can't really decide on what's intrinsically right and wrong because if we did, we wouldn't have such conflated laws among nations, some of whom claim to be 'allies'. :rofl:  

A good example is abortion: To some it's a horrible thing to do while to others it's just a fetus, a bundle of matter and an insufficient number of chromosomes. Take your pick, there's no right or wrong answer.

Edited by Sean93, 23 January 2013 - 08:51 PM.

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#8    Babe Ruth

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:09 PM

Surely there are situational ethics, but for the most part we know right from wrong as we get older.  We know it is wrong to hurt another, and I guess that's why there are guilt feelings associated when we do hurt another, even emotionally.

Is right and wrong absolute?  Not necessarily.  It is wrong to kill another, but if the 'other' is a war criminal, is it really wrong to execute that person after a proper trial?  I don't think so.

Trouble is that as a society, under the leadership of greedy and immoral leaders, we seem to have lost sight of what is wrong and what is right.  We have been conditioned over decades, to accept or even advocate for immoral actions.  The Lucifer Effect comes into play.


#9    Jinxdom

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:55 AM

I like my morals. If agree to do something it's ok. If people don't agree it's not ok. Putting a value of right or wrong to an actions tends to confuse most people and complicates situations. Oh and causes a whole bunch of political drama.


#10    WoIverine

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:11 AM

Would be nice to have a billionaire floating around like Bruce Wayne to right a few wrongs, we could use someone like that in this day and age.


#11    Zaphod222

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:26 AM

View PostTurecast, on 23 January 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Are there morals or  just what the people in charge declare or are there really true morals and as humans do we truly follow them?

Of course, in the big scheme of things, there is no such thing as morality. The universe simply *is*, beyond good or bad.

Now societies, as groups of human beings, need a set of values for orientation in order to survive. That is usually where religion comes in. Religionists love to claim that we need gods in order to have morals. Which of course begs the question: which god? Believers in different gods claim different morals, which makes this argument absurd right there.

For a basic, non-religionist, starting point for a set of moral values that are good for society, why don´t you simply use Kant`s Golden Rule? That is more beautiful, elegant, and meaningful than anything any religious prophet has ever concocted.

Edited by Zaphod222, 24 January 2013 - 07:29 AM.

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#12    Verloc

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:49 AM

View PostTurecast, on 23 January 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Are there morals or  just what the people in charge declare or are there really true morals and as humans do we truly follow them?

I think in the end it comes down to treating others as you yourself would like to be treated, doesn't matter what religion you are, this is a basic moral principle we should at least try to adhere to.


#13    Frank Merton

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:16 AM

View PostThe Id3al Experience, on 23 January 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

There is no absolute right or wrong, for some things, thought right, were considered wrong for generations, since the value of rightousness may be recogized after centuries.
You make a valid point but I think maybe draw an incorrect conclusion from it.  That cultural standards about what is right and wrong change over time and that different cultures have somewhat different rules is easy to show.

I don't know, though, that this implies there is no such thing as right and wrong.  That would be a considerable stretch; all I would say is that it is perhaps evidence of such a conclusion.

Some things are universal, such as murdering insiders (many cultures allow murder of others outside the culture) or incest (very few exceptions exist and they tend to prove themselves not really exceptions when looked at closely).

Also, all cultures, while the details may vary, nevertheless do have the concept of right and wrong.

I would also mention that we recognize a phenomenon called "conscience" that seems to be nearly universal and that is reinforced with qualia such as guilt and fear and shame and honor.

Finally, and I think most important, there exists an extended tradition in philosophy, called "ethics" of wise men trying to discern principles that apply universally, and these men have to some extent been successful, so that we today have Kantian principles and Utilitarianism and the ethical systems of the major religions, and no doubt others.

The religions coming out of India -- mainly Hinduism and Buddhism -- have the concept of karma, which is a sort-of "force" or "energy" of good and evil.  (I am forced to put those words in tics lest they be confused with the same words as used in physics).  Others see this in terms of "harmony" with the universe (Chinese and I think probably many Native American cultures) where good is going with the flow of the universe and evil is trying to block it, causing unfortunate consequences.  I don't know that these concepts nor the Western ethics are completely successful, but I think they approach a workable sense of it that allows us to at least say the concept is real.


#14    lightly

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:48 PM

well....  ever hurt someone's feelings so badly with an unkind word that they broke down and cried their eyes out?   How did it make you feel?     If you KNEW that would be the result of your unkind word I think that would be a case of someone KNOWINGLY doing   Wrong.   I think any conscious, purposeful , harmful act is  Intentional WRONG.

   I think our  Hearts  are the judge of Right and Wrong in our lives.

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#15    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:57 PM

View PostWoIverine, on 24 January 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Would be nice to have a billionaire floating around like Bruce Wayne to right a few wrongs, we could use someone like that in this day and age.
Or Tony Stark :tu: :gun:

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