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'Peaceful' Minoans Surprisingly Warlike


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#1    docyabut2

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:16 PM

Minoan artifacts were first excavated more than a century ago, Molloy said, and archaeologists painted a picture of a peaceful civilization where war played little to no role. Molloy doubted these tales; Crete was home to a complex society that traded with major powers such as Egypt, he said. It seemed unlikely they could reach such heights entirely cooperatively, he added.

"As I looked for evidence for violence, warriors or war, it quickly became obvious that it could be found in a surprisingly wide range of places


http://www.livescien...ly-warlike.html



Crete,(Atlantis) A unknown war with Athens was possiable.


#2    docyabut2

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:33 AM

They were a maritime culture who controlled the seas at the height of their power, the tale of Atlantis never said where this war took place.

Plato
Solon, your country shone forth, in the excellence of her virtue and strength, among all mankind. She was pre-eminent in courage and military skill, and was the leader of the Hellenes. And when the rest fell off from her, being compelled to stand alone, after having undergone the very extremity of danger, she defeated and triumphed over the invaders.But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea.


#3    docyabut2

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:46 AM

The Egyptain priest does refered the war of Atlantis to the mythical kings of Athens around the 15 hundreds bc, and a earthquake flood of destuction.
At Tell el Dab'a in Egypt, pumice found at this location has been dated to 1540 BCE, closer to the traditionally accepted date of Thera's eruption.
Plato-
(This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon)
Plato-
(Where the Acropolis now is there was a fountain, which was choked by the earthquake, and has left only the few small streams which still exist in the vicinity, but in those days the fountain gave an abundant supply of water for all and of suitable temperature in summer and in winter. This is how they dwelt, being the guardians of their own citizens and the leaders of the Hellenes, who were their willing followers. And they took care to preserve the same number of men and women through all time, being so many as were required for warlike purposes, then as now-that is to say, about twenty thousand)


The legend tell us, that all the men of Athens voted for the gift of Poseidon and all the women, for the gift of Athena and because there was one woman more than the men, goddess Athena was selected and from her, the city took her name.
To defend the country from the Karian pirates from the sea and the Boeotians from the land, Kekrops, in order to manage better the population, distributed Attica in the following twelve sections: Aphidna, Brauron, Dekeleia, Epakria, Eleusis, Kekropia, Kephisius, Kytherus, Phalerus, Sphettus, Tetrapolis, Thorikus. He also ordered each man to cast a single stone and by counting the stones, it was found that they were twenty thousand inhabitants.



#4    Frank Merton

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:24 AM

This tends to happen; at first the culture is described in utopian terms (everyone would love to find an ancient utopia), but as more knowledge accumulates it turns out they are no different than other human beings.

The Maya are no doubt the best example of this process.


#5    docyabut2

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:46 AM

References to floods in Greek Mythology .


Floods
Besides the Flood in the time of Deucalion 1, there have been other floods. The island of Atlantis, for example, was swallowed up by the sea, and vanished with the third of the floods which preceded the deluge in the age of Deucalion 1. Severe inundations are also reported to have wiped out severals cities that were founded and ruled by Cecrops 1 in Boeotia, then called Ogygia (Strab.9.2.18).


Dispute with Athena (II)
Poseidon, they say, was the first who came to Attica; and with a blow of his trident on the Acropolis, he produced a sea or, as some say, just a well of sea-water that could be seen in the Erechtheum on the Acropolis not far from the outline of the trident on the rock. These were the evidences in support of Poseidon's claim to the land. But Athena, coming after him, planted an olive tree and claimed the land; and since they fought for the possession of the country, Zeus parted them and appointed the OLYMPIANS as arbiters, who adjudged the city to Athena, because King Cecrops 1 witnessed that she had been the first to plant the olive tree. Athena called the city Athens after herself, but Poseidon, angry at the verdict flooded Attica. However, some say that it was Zeus who ajudged Athens to Athena, and that Poseidon never flooded the country because Hermes forbade him to do so. In any case, in the shrine of Erechtheus there remained preserved a long time an olive tree and a pool of salt water which had been set there by Athena and Poseidon as tokens when they contended for the city.


Poseidon, angry at the verdict may have flooded Attica.



http://www.maicar.co...L/Poseidon.html


#6    Abramelin

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:10 PM

Posted Image

Docyabut, it's best to first copy the text from some website, and then paste into Notepad, and from there copy and paste into your reply.


#7    docyabut2

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:11 PM

Ok Abramelin will try :)well any how the poseidon flood of athens would have been the third before Deucalion.


Plato

   Now the city in those days was arranged on this wise. In the first place the Acropolis was not as now. For the fact is that a single night of excessive rain washed away the earth and laid bare the rock; at the same time there were earthquakes, and then occurred the extraordinary inundation, which was the third before the great destruction of Deucalion.


#8    cormac mac airt

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:15 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 25 January 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

The Egyptain priest does refered the war of Atlantis to the mythical kings of Athens around the 15 hundreds bc, and a earthquake flood of destuction.
At Tell el Dab'a in Egypt, pumice found at this location has been dated to 1540 BCE, closer to the traditionally accepted date of Thera's eruption.
Plato-
(This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon)
Plato-
(Where the Acropolis now is there was a fountain, which was choked by the earthquake, and has left only the few small streams which still exist in the vicinity, but in those days the fountain gave an abundant supply of water for all and of suitable temperature in summer and in winter. This is how they dwelt, being the guardians of their own citizens and the leaders of the Hellenes, who were their willing followers. And they took care to preserve the same number of men and women through all time, being so many as were required for warlike purposes, then as now-that is to say, about twenty thousand)


The legend tell us, that all the men of Athens voted for the gift of Poseidon and all the women, for the gift of Athena and because there was one woman more than the men, goddess Athena was selected and from her, the city took her name.
To defend the country from the Karian pirates from the sea and the Boeotians from the land, Kekrops, in order to manage better the population, distributed Attica in the following twelve sections: Aphidna, Brauron, Dekeleia, Epakria, Eleusis, Kekropia, Kephisius, Kytherus, Phalerus, Sphettus, Tetrapolis, Thorikus. He also ordered each man to cast a single stone and by counting the stones, it was found that they were twenty thousand inhabitants.


This is no real help in support of Thera as Atlantis, since it differs from the known date of Thera's eruption by 70+ years. The eruption dating to c.1613 +/- 10 years BC.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#9    docyabut2

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:34 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 27 January 2013 - 12:15 AM, said:

This is no real help in support of Thera as Atlantis, since it differs from the known date of Thera's eruption by 70+ years. The eruption dating to c.1613 +/- 10 years BC.

cormac

comic a eruption may have happen at other times.

At one time, data from Greenland ice cores seemed to support the radiocarbon dates. A large eruption identified in ice cores and dated to 1644 ± 20 BCE was suspected to be Santorini. However, volcanic ash retrieved from an ice core demonstrated that this was not from Santorini, leading to the conclusion that the eruption may have occurred on another date.[18] The late Holocene eruption of the Mount Aniakchak, a volcano in Alaska, is proposed as the most likely source of the minute shards of volcanic glass in the Greenland ice core.[32]


#10    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:40 AM

Thera eruption didn cause collapse of Minoans. They persist to live for next 200 years. Only Akrotiri site was ruined.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#11    cormac mac airt

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:52 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 27 January 2013 - 12:34 AM, said:

comic a eruption may have happen at other times.

At one time, data from Greenland ice cores seemed to support the radiocarbon dates. A large eruption identified in ice cores and dated to 1644 ± 20 BCE was suspected to be Santorini. However, volcanic ash retrieved from an ice core demonstrated that this was not from Santorini, leading to the conclusion that the eruption may have occurred on another date.[18] The late Holocene eruption of the Mount Aniakchak, a volcano in Alaska, is proposed as the most likely source of the minute shards of volcanic glass in the Greenland ice core.[32]

There are no other major eruptions in the 2nd millenium BC on Thera.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 27 January 2013 - 12:53 AM.

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#12    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:54 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 25 January 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

This tends to happen; at first the culture is described in utopian terms (everyone would love to find an ancient utopia), but as more knowledge accumulates it turns out they are no different than other human beings.


Utopia comes from greek word meaning "No where".

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#13    docyabut2

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:05 AM

Crete- Knossos- the eruption of the volcano on nearby Thera, also known as Santorini, has long been held a major factor in the destruction of the city. This event is also thought to have inspired Plato’s description of the sinking of Atlantis).

In ancient times the island of Thera was known as Thera. Archeological remains found on Thera beneath the pumice deposit from the Bronze-Age Minoan eruption show that there was a wide-spread and highly developed culture on the island: the Minoans. The Minoans were a powerful culture that ruled the island of Crete and neighboring islands for about two thousand years, or until about 1500 BC.


http://www.uri.edu/e...thera/arch.html

Edited by docyabut2, 27 January 2013 - 01:50 AM.


#14    docyabut2

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:08 AM

Opps forgot the note pad:) if I ever figure it out ::):)


#15    cormac mac airt

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:09 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 27 January 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

but thera (crete) was also buried in ash

In ancient times the island of Thera was known as Thera. Archeological remains found on Thera beneath the pumice deposit from the Bronze-Age Minoan eruption show that there was a wide-spread and highly developed culture on the island: the Minoans. The Minoans were a powerful culture that ruled the island of Crete and neighboring islands for about two thousand years, or until about 1500 BC.


http://www.uri.edu/e...thera/arch.html

Thera and Crete are two entirely different islands. And none of this supports your contention of a second eruption around 1500 BC.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus




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