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Can number of rapes be decreased?

number of rapes decreasing rape nos

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#16    Arpee

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:25 PM

I beleive it is possible for the number of rapes to be decreased. Unfortunately, humanity is still at its primitive stage where it feels like it needs to "control" and "conquer" so as long as this type of mind set continue to exist, so will rape, slavery, control, etc...

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#17    freetoroam

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:29 PM

The clothes thing? as pointed out, it is down to the opportunity, and as it stands, a prostitute is generally a good opportunity for the rapist, nothing to do with what she is wearing.
If a woman was walking down a dark street where a rapist was waiting, whether she was wearing a short skirt or trousers would make no difference to the rapist.
You will generally find the young girls scantily dresses at parties, if raped,  it will be by some young drunk man who also acknowledges she is drunk too, if she is not drunk, she will generally be in the vicinity of the rapist and within the same company, not necessarily knowing him though.  This kind of rape is a different form to the serial rapist who preys on all women. This kind of rape must be taken extremely serious as it is more likely this young offender will continue with age and they are generally violent too. Please note, rape is violent, but not always involves beatings.
Hence:
The danger with the serial rapist is that over time, without being caught, the rape alone may not satisfy him enough and he may move on to other things, eg: more physical violence, then murder.
It is found that most serial rapists did start out at a young age, mainly in their teens....and because in the past rape was not seen as it is today, many of these rapists continued because they were never apprehended.
Please note this does not mean that all rapists started out at some party.!!

Edited by freetoroam, 25 January 2013 - 06:51 PM.


#18    Daughter of the Nine Moons

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:47 PM

Another thing that I find incredibly offensive is the implication that men are not able to control themselves because they are incited to rape because of scantily clad women. You do a disservice to men. They are not animals, most men can control themselves.

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#19    TSS

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:47 PM

Both in this thread and the last there seemed to be a theme that women can reduce rape by the way they dress, how they provoke a man's animal instinct etc....I find that absolutely odd.

Take a look at this survey of over a hundred convicted rapists:

https://www.d.umn.ed...andmarollis.htm

They are split into 2 categories, those that admitted their guilt, and those that deny it...and yet if you look at what they say then both groups are just looking at removing themselves from the situation, since they say that rape is wrong, followed by "but I was nice to her" "I didn't hurt her" "she didn't fight very hard"....or the other end where they say "her sexual history ment she asked for it etc" ....yet i'm willing to bet if they didn't know anything about the girl they raped, or how it affected her afterwards, then they just move from one excuse to another. In the survey one rapists who was part of a gang rape said she said she would do anything we wanted as long as we didn't hurt her - she looked like she was enjoying it. Yet another one who used violence to subdue a women said that that is just part of foreplay.....so you can't win either way, they will just keep moving the goal posts to find an excuse that removed the blame onto them, and make it appear that things were different.

As for biological urges and all that - any bloke reading this will tell you (if he's being honest) that if he was with his wife/girlfriend, in the throws of things, and the police came storming through his door he would struggle to raise a smile after that, let alone anything else, and he certainly wouldn't be standing there saying "sorry officer, won't be a minute, i'm an animal with a biological need to fulfill here and nothing going to stop me", because the situation has changed, the mindset changes with it. Similarly, if you're with a women and she suddenly says "no", that's a mood killer immediately, interest in continuing would be gone in a nano second for me, because the reason for being there has changed to the point that you can't continue down that route - that is how any normal thinking male would think. But you are not dealing with normal thinking males when it comes to rapists, so it doesn't matter what you wear, your history, the vibes you give off, you could dress modestly and never leave the house or look a man in the eye, and still be raped. The only common theme in rape is opportunity, the girl walking home alone at night and is abducted and gang raped, the women at the party who gets drunk and goes to someone's house she doesn't know well etc etc....

Live more sensibly in the way you leave opportunity open to be exploited and raped and you might reduce rape, but don't give rapists the get out of free jail card they want by tip toeing through life trying to change how you dress or act in the hope they will leave you alone - because they have shown in every study there is that they don't think like that anyway....

Edited by Sky Scanner, 25 January 2013 - 06:50 PM.


#20    ouija ouija

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:55 PM

View PostDaughter of the Nine Moons, on 25 January 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

No it doesn't. You are still not laying the blame where it is due. Rape is a crime  therefore you must blame the perpetrator of the crime. The rapist, not the victim and not even society. A person must be accountable for their actions.

You narrowly define rapists as "sexually frustrated males .... possibly socially awkward and/or unnattractive enough to know that they will never have a girlfriend never mind a wife and family?"

Rapists, like victims are not narrowly defined by socio-economic limitations, nor are they defined by gender for that matter. Teachers, priests, cops firefighters, family men, pillars of the community, strangers, husbands, boyfriends, bosses. Anyone of them can be a rapist not just "awkward, sexually frustrated males."

You choose not to understand that rape is not about sex, it is about power. It is about taking something that is not yours to take.

I also want to make this clear that I am talking about rape and not about false accusations of rape which is a different issue in itself

I DO blame the criminal! I absolutely do feel that the perpetrator of the crime should be held accountable for their actions.

Oh dear! Once again I have not made myself clear: I didn't intend to 'narrowly define' a rapist, I was giving an example of a possible influence ...... a possible chain of events. Hmm, I'm not even sure that rapists(some rapists), view it as 'taking something that is not their's to take', but more a case of inflicting something on the victim .... pain? revenge? frustration? humiliation?

Please don't tell me what I 'choose to understand' :) . What I know is that rape is about sex and power ....... power over an individual can be exerted in several ways, for instance by beating them up. The rapist chooses non-consensual sex.

In your post #10 you say that 'rape is rarely about sex' ..... here you say 'rape is not about sex' .... which statement did you mean?

Edited by ouija ouija, 25 January 2013 - 07:17 PM.

What, in all the world, could I do to earn my living and still live as myself, as I knew myself to be? Temporary masks, I knew, had their place; everyone was wearing them, they were the human rage; but not masks cemented in place until the wearer could not breathe and was eventually suffocated.

#21    AsteroidX

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:55 PM

It needs to be all but eliminated. It sickens me to the point of physical illness every time I hear another of one of these stories.

Has it always been this bad.? Is it getting worse or is this just another example of global media transmiting us stories we never would have heard before ? I truly dont know.

I know what my answer for a solution would be. 1 and your done. No trial. The number of young women in my community that were sexually abused as young girls or beyond is appalling.


#22    freetoroam

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:59 PM

View PostDaughter of the Nine Moons, on 25 January 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

Another thing that I find incredibly offensive is the implication that men are not able to control themselves because they are incited to rape because of scantily clad women. You do a disservice to men. They are not animals, most men can control themselves.
Scantily dressed women are not easy prey because they are scantily dressed, many "experienced" rapists who now use brute violence will welcome a fully dressed women........I do not even want to go through the sordid details, but you are right and I agree.


#23    freetoroam

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:02 PM

but don't give rapists the get out of free jail card they want by tip toeing through life trying to change how you dress or act in the hope they will leave you alone - because they have shown in every study there is that they don't think like that anyway....

=====================================================================

absolutely, and to a point the law up to now has given the rapist that exact excuse...to say "but she was dressed like a ....." hence getting some sympathy from those who had no idea that this was not the reason he raped her in the first place.


#24    freetoroam

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:08 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 25 January 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

Please don't tell me what I 'choose to understand' :) . What I know is that rape is about sex and power ....... power over an individual can be exerted in several ways, for instance by beating them up. The rapist chooses non-consensual sex.

To an extent yes, but many have said it is not even the sex, some have said they felt physically sick after  sex, but the power thing is something they could not control at the time.  But to an extent too, it seems that they can not control their sexual drive, so is it about sex in a different sort of way ?
There are also different types of rape and sex does not always come into it from the mans side...again, no sordid details needed, but sex is not always the issue.


#25    freetoroam

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:22 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 25 January 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:



Has it always been this bad.? Is it getting worse or is this just another example of global media transmiting us stories we never would have heard before ? I truly dont know.


For once I agree with the media for highlighting this problem.
I do not know how to stop it and do not think we can, not in the foreseeable future anyway, but there are certain things which can make some men aware that they are not protected by the naive anymore.
All rapes need to be taken seriously and any man who says the girl was scantily dressed should be taken even more seriously, because this is NO excuse and it must be made known that they will no longer get away with that 'excuse'.
Any young offender (no matter what age) should be put on the registrar, remember  the older serial rapists most likely started at a young age, and DRINK should not not used as an excuse to be given a lighter sentence, if anything it just shows how dangerous this man is to women when drunk!


#26    ouija ouija

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:41 PM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 25 January 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

I think you kinda get perilously close to blaming the victim yourself here:

I realize you discuss this from the point of view of the scantily clad woman inciting the rapist to go rape someone else, but I don't see how your logic changes if the rapist, in your scenario, ends up raping the scantily clad woman herself; in both scenarios you seem to be, if not blaming, at least criticizing the scantily-clad woman for doing something wrong, you seem to disagree that women actually do have a right to wear what they want by using the somewhat mocking word, 'brigade'.  It's not just blaming the victim that's the problem, it's not placing the blame squarely and solely on the criminal themselves.  This is in addition to the other posters who have noted correctly that it's usually not dressing sexy that is inciting the rape; I'm not sure what the percentage is but I'm pretty sure that the majority of rapes are committed by someone the victims actually know or who are acquaintances.

It's a mistake also to assume that women showing a lot of flesh are signalling availability, that simply does not necessarily follow.  There are lots of reasons a woman may show skin that you are not accounting for nor ruling out, and 'a lot of flesh' is usually very subjective.
Regarding your first sentence: you may view it as 'perilously close'(to blaming the victim), but I do not in fact, blame the victim.

Women do indeed have the right to wear what they want, when they want ........ but sometimes common sense should overrule that right.

I most definitely do not blame the victim(apart from, in some cases, for making a poor judgement), and I most definitely DO(how many times do I have to state this?!), lay the full blame on the perpetrator.

Something else that I fear I am going to have to repeat over and over is this: when I talk about clothing playing a part I am talking about some not all cases.

Just because someone knows, or is acquainted with the person who rapes them doesn't mean that clothing doesn't play a part ....... does it? That seems to be what you are suggesting.

As for 'signalling availability' by being scantily-clad: in my post #8 I wrote: 'The line between 'attractive' and 'sexually available at that moment' has become very fuzzy in people's minds'.

Edited by ouija ouija, 25 January 2013 - 08:32 PM.

What, in all the world, could I do to earn my living and still live as myself, as I knew myself to be? Temporary masks, I knew, had their place; everyone was wearing them, they were the human rage; but not masks cemented in place until the wearer could not breathe and was eventually suffocated.

#27    AsteroidX

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

It would help if there was a concrete definition of rape. Frat parties and parties in general where the term "date" rape got coined muttled the term alot.

For me forcible rape and child rape are the lines we must stand firm on and not allow second chances on. It should carry penalties stiffer then murder IMO.


#28    AsteroidX

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:44 PM

Quote

For once I agree with the media for highlighting this problem.

I agree just trying to understand if this is a growing problem or an always been there problem.


#29    ouija ouija

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 08:39 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 25 January 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

I agree just trying to understand if this is a growing problem or an always been there problem.
Very hard to say because so much isn't recorded. For instance incest .... very difficult to assess that crime over decades. Also, I think I'm right in saying that more women are coming forward to report rape, but how does that compare with the years when rape was often a 'hidden' crime?
It certainly feels like a growing problem. But equally, it's probably always been there.

What, in all the world, could I do to earn my living and still live as myself, as I knew myself to be? Temporary masks, I knew, had their place; everyone was wearing them, they were the human rage; but not masks cemented in place until the wearer could not breathe and was eventually suffocated.

#30    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 08:45 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 25 January 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

Women do indeed have the right to wear what they want, when they want ........ but sometimes common sense should to overrule that right.

I most definitely do not blame the victim(apart from, in some cases, for making a poor judgement), and I most definitely DO(how many times do I have to state this?!), lay the full blame on the perpetrator.

Again, the statement from you that threw me off was:  "Everywhere they look there are women exposing vast amounts of flesh, signalling availability .... but not for them! And this is where the I-have-a-right-to-wear-what-I-want-when-I-want brigade need to sit up and take notice: it may well not be them who is attacked and raped, but they may well be the one who has sexually inflamed the man who then rapes someone more vulnerable who he feels he can easily overpower! This could be a child, a frail old person, a nun, or a scantily clad, attractive, young, drunk woman walking down a dark alley on her own at 2a.m.."  That's great that you've clarified your position in the quote above, but the above can be construed as, 'be careful you women who dress scantily, your actions may not just lead to you being raped, but others who may be more vulnerable as well'.  You may well not intend it this way, but that is one interpretation, I thought based on the above that you were criticizing women who wear what they want.  This scenario seems to be under the conception that many/most rapists 1) are aroused by someone sexually and then 2) go and rape someone; that is too simplistic and doesn't seem to jibe that well with what we do know about what motivates rapists.  And people have to be careful when discussing this, even though you don't mean it this way, because there are too many people who partially 'excuse' rape specifically because the woman was dressed provocatively, was 'slutty', etc.

Let me try an analogy.  I live in the metro Detroit area, downtown Detroit has a very high homicide rate but luckily (for me) not much of that splashes into the suburbs, and the police are notoriously unresponsive to crimes that don't occur in the business/tourist areas of the city.  It would be extremely unwise for me to go down at night into the city and park in one of the neighborhoods and just wander around, it would not be that surprising if I ended up the victim of a crime.  If I did end up a victim, the only persons on whom blame should be laid would be the criminals.  Yes, you could say I was stupid for going down into the city at night, everyone with a brain knows how dangerous it is, so in some sense it is tempting to say that I do share some blame; the reason I do not think that logic carries over when discussing crimes against women is that to women, almost everywhere is 'downtown Detroit neighborhood at night'.  Of course there are places where it is more dangerous and places where it is safer, but the prevalence of sexual assault against women is appallingly high and too common everywhere.  It's one thing to tell me not to be dumb and don't go to random city neighborhoods at night, I obviously have other options.  It's entirely another to suggest to a woman not to dress wrong, or more relevant to the actual attributes of rapists, don't have male acquaintances or friends as chances are if you are going to be assaulted it's going to be by someone you know.

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