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Billionaires secretly fund attacks on climate

donors capital fund climate change the donors trust koch industries charles koch

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#16    Little Fish

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:05 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 25 January 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

Im sorry what is a carbon credit market ?
you haven't heard of carbon trading?
its real money you will have to pay to goldman sachs and al gore for emitting carbon dioxide.


#17    AsteroidX

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:07 PM

OK. I call BS. This is not healthy regardless of Global Warming statements. The explained causes are the same.

http://www2.ucar.edu...r-mass-goes-bad

http://www.worldpoli...s-bad-air-day

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you haven't heard of carbon trading?
its real money you will have to pay to goldman sachs and al gore for emitting carbon dioxide.

Gotcha. Thank You


#18    Hasina

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:09 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 25 January 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

you seemed to be championing mann whose work has been the flagship for the warmist movement and was discredited by an amateur hobbyist who receives no funding from big oil, koch brothers etc.

a warmer world is not a bad thing in my opinion.

there is no empirical evidence man is causing climate change or global warming. if you believe man is causing climate chanae, that's fine, but its not science to believe.
Oh no, I just found it funny that among other things, unrelated to climate change, he was also called a child molester. Is this the whole reason you picked my post to quote? Cause I said something about Mann without even stating an opinion about him? Alright~

What's 'empirical evidence' to you?

Now, I know this is from a 'biased' site (heck any site that takes a stance on any issue at all is biased, yes?) but it may give some evidence. But since you may just disregard with 'there has been NO global warming for sixteen years during which time human carbon dioxide emissions have increased 30%. people have awoken to this fact.' But, here it is anyway: http://www.skeptical...bal-warming.htm

Since I may be a bit dense from just reading from a biased source, could you point out the flaws in this evidence?

Edited by Hasina, 25 January 2013 - 09:09 PM.

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#19    Little Fish

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:25 PM

View PostHasina, on 25 January 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Oh no, I just found it funny that among other things, unrelated to climate change, he was also called a child molester. Is this the whole reason you picked my post to quote? Cause I said something about Mann without even stating an opinion about him? Alright~
he was acussed of molesting the data...and he's from penn state uni (same as child abuser landusky), but mann sues just about everyone who criticises his work and instead pretends they are attacking him personally.

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What's 'empirical evidence' to you?
something you can measure in reality for a start.

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Now, I know this is from a 'biased' site (heck any site that takes a stance on any issue at all is biased, yes?) but it may give some evidence. But since you may just disregard with 'there has been NO global warming for sixteen years during which time human carbon dioxide emissions have increased 30%. people have awoken to this fact.' But, here it is anyway: http://www.skeptical...bal-warming.htm

Since I may be a bit dense from just reading from a biased source, could you point out the flaws in this evidence?
its just a simple rhetorical argument dressed up to look like science (using dodgy measurements too), "co2 causes warming, we emit co2 therefore we are the cause of global warming." the only real question that needs to be answered is "how much", and it is that which has not been measured, probably because its too small to be measurable.

Edited by Little Fish, 25 January 2013 - 09:30 PM.


#20    Hasina

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:32 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 25 January 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

its just a simple rhetorical argument dressed up to look like science (using dodgy measurements too), "co2 causes warming, we emit co2 therefore we are the cause of global warming." the only real question that needs to be answered is "how much", and it is that which has not been measured, probably because its too small to be measurable.
I'm gonna by pass the 'molesting data' comment, no where near as damning as, say, molesting innocent children.

From the link it's states: Human carbon dioxide emissions are calculated from international energy statistics, tabulating coal, brown coal, peat, and crude oil production by nation and year, going back to 1751. CO2 emissions have increased dramatically over the last century, climbing to the rate of 29 billion tonnes of CO2 per year in 2006 (EIA).

Atmospheric CO2 levels are measured at hundreds of monitoring stations across the globe. Independent measurements are also conducted by airplanes and satellites. For periods before 1958, CO2 levels are determined from air bubbles trapped in polar ice cores. In pre-industrial times over the last 10,000 years, CO2 was relatively stable at around 275 to 285 parts per million. Over the last 250 years, atmospheric CO2 levels have increased by about 100 parts per million. Currently, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing by around 15 gigatonnes every year.

Now let me ask, do you mean 'how much' as in 'how much CO2 causes climate change'? It doesn't put too much of a link in my own views, since I did say humans are just one factor of climate change.

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#21    Little Fish

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:46 PM

View PostHasina, on 25 January 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

For periods before 1958, CO2 levels are determined from air bubbles trapped in polar ice cores. In pre-industrial times over the last 10,000 years, CO2 was relatively stable at around 275 to 285 parts per million.
greenland ice cores show co2 as 330-350 ppmv over the last 10,000 years. how can you explain that?

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Now let me ask, do you mean 'how much' as in 'how much CO2 causes climate change'?
sorry, i meant how much warming due to man emitted co2.

Edited by Little Fish, 25 January 2013 - 09:47 PM.


#22    Hasina

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:54 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 25 January 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

greenland ice cores show co2 as 330-350 ppmv over the last 10,000 years. how can you explain that?

sorry, i meant how much warming due to man emitted co2.
I'm no scientist, but I am an accountant by day and a snoppy dresser by night, so I don't bloody know since this isn't my field of research nor even a primary interest of mine.

You'd think the scientists could come to a conclusion, but you have 'experts' on both sides doing their thang, talking the lines, walking the walk, without coming to a solid conclusion that can't be refuted by anyone.

I know science can't be like accounting, tap tap, oh hey! Everything adds up! But you'd think the scientists would be willing to grab ALL THE DATA and study it and come to a final conclusion, but no can even agree on what ALL THE DATA is or even if we have ALL THE DATA.

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#23    Little Fish

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:56 PM

http://wattsupwithth...-plant-stomata/


#24    Hasina

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:00 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 25 January 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

I'll have to peruse that, thank you!

I do have to say something I find funny; a lot of the current generation is blaming global warming on the past generations while at the same time continuing to do the same activities they view as 'the reasons for climate change'. I've heard many people of my generation who are hardcore environmentalists saying things like 'why didn't our parents care enough?' For the same reasons we don't, we're short sighted creatures who are self-centered. It's the same attitude that gave us creation myths, comments such as 'humanity is a plague on the Earth' and other such presumptuous things that place man outside of what he is, an animal with a knack for making tools.

Edited by Hasina, 25 January 2013 - 10:01 PM.

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#25    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:18 PM

Bill Gates = anti Christ

http://nymag.com/dai...cret_billi.html

And if no one realizes this,Mark Zuckerberg is now in this elite crowd .
His endorsement of Chris Christie,four years before the next election is a huge red flag in my opinion .

Edited by Simbi Laveau, 25 January 2013 - 10:22 PM.

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#26    DONTEATUS

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:14 AM

Im really confused ! WHere`s the HEck Babe Ruth in here ? :no:  Nah ! its stupid enough to read this tripe !

This is a Work in Progress!

#27    Setton

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:41 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 25 January 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

greenland ice cores show co2 as 330-350 ppmv over the last 10,000 years. how can you explain that?

Climate changes naturally. I'd like you to point to one time in Earth's history where there has been an increase of ~0.25 ppm/yr in atmospheric CO2.

Do you honestly not see the link between increased industry and increased CO2 levels? Or do you think the increase at the time of the industrial revolution is purely coincidence?


View PostLittle Fish, on 25 January 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

he was acussed of molesting the data...and he's from penn state uni (same as child abuser landusky), but mann sues just about everyone who criticises his work and instead pretends they are attacking him personally.

He's recieved death threats and claims of fraud. That's pretty personal. It's also irrelevant to the science here so I'll leave that for another time.

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its just a simple rhetorical argument dressed up to look like science (using dodgy measurements too), "co2 causes warming, we emit co2 therefore we are the cause of global warming." the only real question that needs to be answered is "how much", and it is that which has not been measured, probably because its too small to be measurable.

This just shows how little you understand about climate change. The issue isn't the amount we produce. It's that we are producing some without providing the necessary sinks. If you increase a source and (in our case) decrease sinks, you will get a net increase. That's simple logic.

'Good' is not the same as 'nice'.
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#28    KainFall

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:44 PM

I took care of the oil spill in the ocean and the trash. Why not global warming. If your a billionaire and dont know what to do with your money so you give it to "secret" organizations researching the fix for global warming.. At least try to GET A LIFE. and donate to the government organizations revolved around the fix for global warming.. I mean seriously.. AT LEAST.. Or you couldv donated to the Australian Carbon Tax.. Save them some money.. Jesus Christ yall fail.


#29    HuntrSThompsun

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:37 PM

Rich *******s. Better things to burn your $ on, I hope bigfoot tears apart their pipelines


#30    Stardrive

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:27 PM

View PostSetton, on 26 January 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

This just shows how little you understand about climate change. The issue isn't the amount we produce. It's that we are producing some without providing the necessary sinks. If you increase a source and (in our case) decrease sinks, you will get a net increase. That's simple logic.
Indeed it is simple logic. BUT, one has to take into concideration how far up into the atmosphere the co2 generated by our activities goes. What goes up must come down. A volcano can alter the climate because of how high into the atmosphere it can push the various gasses it releases. The types of gasses released, and how high into the atmosphere they go, have differing effects on climate. Some combinations make it warmer, some make it colder.  At least that's my understanding of it. I wish it was black and white, but there are many factors to take into account.

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