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Are Jews Egyptians ?


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#16    Everdred

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:06 AM

Jews definitely didn't come from Egyptians.

Others have already touched upon the fundamental differences between Aten and Yahweh, but also consider practice.

Aten worship seems to have evolved quite quickly under Akhenaten, first with Aten being set apart from other gods and then becoming the sole god--proper monotheism.  But when the ancient Hebrews are first evidenced in the historical record centuries later, they are not monotheistic but monolatrous, meaning they worship one, favored god (Yahweh) but recognize the existence of other gods.  They became monotheistic centuries later (in the 6th century BCE).  Had they started as Aten worshipers they would have already been monotheistic.


#17    questionmark

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:44 AM

View Postmanbearpigg, on 25 January 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

This thunder/rain god bears a lot of resemblance to the Ancient Philistine deity "BAAL" (whom if you remember your bible study class was pretty much the Devil/Satan of the old testament.)

The only relationship between the Jews and and Egyptians besides the exodus story is the ancient "Shepard Kings"/"Foreign Rulers" of the "Hyksos" post middle kingdom.

We know they were from the Mesopotamian region (all it means is that they were Semites not necessarily Hebrews)
and we also know that the time span correlates with the so-called exodus and the repelling of foreign rule in Eqypt.
I also read somewhere that the cult of Amon was the key factor in relinquishing these nomad ruling class.

I am interested to know as well if anyone has more information....

No, the Jew-Hyksos relationship has been disproved by archeology. There might have been some people from Palestine in there, but certainly not Jews.

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#18    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:57 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 25 January 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

You should read Kamal Salibi' s books:

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Kamal_Salibi

Kamal Salibi wrote three books advocating the controversial "Israel in Arabia" theory. In this view, the place names of the Hebrew Bible actually allude to places in southwest Arabia; many of them were later reinterpreted to refer to places in Palestine, when the Arabian Hebrews migrated to what is now called Eretz Israel, and where they established the Hasmonean kingdom under Simon Maccabaeus in the second century B.C. In this new Israel, they switched from Hebrew to Aramaic. It was this switch in language that created the confusions which lead to the distortion of the immigrants' stories. He also argued that 'Lebanon' itself in high antiquity was a place in the Southern Arabian peninsula.

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he's not that renowned and i can't judge on his work because i never read it
but middle east history is best told be people with great renowned such as " ibn khaldun " or " al tabaree "
these two are veteran ih history and some times offer more than one theory of the general idea

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#19    Abramelin

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:09 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 26 January 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

he's not that renowned and i can't judge on his work because i never read it
but middle east history is best told be people with great renowned such as " ibn khaldun " or " al tabaree "
these two are veteran ih history and some times offer more than one theory of the general idea

I know his ideas are heavily disputed, but when I combine his conclusion about the origin of the Hebrews with the ideas from Dr Nissim Raphael Ganor

http://www.unexplain...owentry=26483  

who thinks that the Phoenicians and the Hebrews are one and the same people and originating from Arabia, then it suddenly seems to become a possibility.

Btw, I have the Dutch edition of Kamal Salibi's book.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 26 January 2013 - 02:10 PM.


#20    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:24 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 26 January 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

I know his ideas are heavily disputed, but when I combine his conclusion about the origin of the Hebrews with the ideas from Dr Nissim Raphael Ganor

http://www.unexplain...owentry=26483  

who thinks that the Phoenicians and the Hebrews are one and the same people and originating from Arabia, then it suddenly seems to become a possibility.

Btw, I have the Dutch edition of Kamal Salibi's book.

.
well yeah i've already argued in some topics that phoenicians are also arabs who immigrated from arabia
there was more than few tribes that travelled outside arabia and settled around in middle east
although they did not speak arabic for sure but their root came from arabia , canannites , phonicians and many more
historians even argue that phoroahs were also one of those tribes that immigrated from arabia also aramic people

so it's no surprise the jews or herbew root comes from arabic source
and yes arabs and jews or herbews weather both sides liked it or not they are related cousins

i know the name of the tribes who immigrated from arabia but it skipped my mind at the moment
as the jews or herbews trace their history and link it to one of abraham sons before that there was no herbews or jews
they were arabs , as was abraham

it's more of religious splitting that happend than racial differences

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#21    Tor_Hershman

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:18 PM

Soooo, no one dug the video's BIG outro, ehhh?

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#22    Abramelin

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 05:17 PM

View PostTor_Hershman, on 27 January 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

Soooo, no one dug the video's BIG outro, ehhh?

Uhmmm... true, it was funny, but I did not hear anything new.

And what you said in that video has been refuted already on this site.


#23    Tor_Hershman

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:08 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 27 January 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Uhmmm... true, it was funny, but I did not hear anything new.

And what you said in that video has been refuted already on this site.

Well, if you didn't hear anything "New" you've must of listened to one of my recordings before
'cause I'm the first person, that I know of, to make the "AMEN" connection.

BTW Not a single refutation exists in any of the replies; the latest, know to myself & published in
"Nature," DNA research only states that the DNA evidence shows that Jewish folk originated in the Near-East &
Egypt is considered part of that geo-sphere.


#24    sussexontheriver

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:38 PM

The Jews went to Ancient Egypt for food and shelter after a famine swept across their land. Besides that, they are no more Egyptian than the Egyptians are Jewish.


#25    cormac mac airt

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:42 PM

Quote

For more than a century, Jews and non-Jews alike have tried to define the relatedness of contemporary Jewish people. Previous genetic studies of blood group and serum markers suggested that Jewish groups had Middle Eastern origin with greater genetic similarity between paired Jewish populations. However, these and successor studies of monoallelic Y chromosomal and mitochondrial genetic markers did not resolve the issues of within and between-group Jewish genetic identity. Here, genome-wide analysis of seven Jewish groups (Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian, Italian, Turkish, Greek, and Ashkenazi) and comparison with non-Jewish groups demonstrated distinctive Jewish population clusters, each with shared Middle Eastern ancestry, proximity to contemporary Middle Eastern populations, and variable degrees of European and North African admixture. Two major groups were identified by principal component, phylogenetic,
and identity by descent (IBD) analysis: Middle Eastern Jews and European/Syrian Jews. The IBD segment sharing and the proximity of European Jews to each other and to southern European populations suggested similar origins for European Jewry and refuted large-scale genetic contributions of Central and Eastern European and Slavic populations to the formation of Ashkenazi Jewry. Rapid decay of IBD in Ashkenazi Jewish genomes was consistent with a severe bottleneck followed by large expansion, such as occurred with the so-called demographic miracle of population expansion from 50,000 people at the beginning of the 15th century to 5,000,000 people at the beginning of the 19th century. Thus, this study demonstrates that European/Syrian and Middle Eastern Jews represent a series of geographical isolates or clusters woven together by shared IBD genetic threads.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....72/pdf/main.pdf

Source:

Abraham's Children in the Genome Era: Major Jewish Diaspora Populations Comprise Distinct Genetic Clusters with Shared Middle Eastern Ancestry
DOI 10.1016/j.ajhg.2010.04.015. ª2010 by The American Society of Human Genetics

North African admixture DOES NOT constitute an Egyptian origin.


Quote

Contemporary Jews comprise an aggregate of ethno-religious communities whose worldwide members identify with each other through various shared religious, historical and cultural traditions. Historical evidence suggests common origins in the Middle East, followed by migrations leading to the establishment of communities of Jews in Europe, Africa and Asia, in what is termed the Jewish Diaspora.

http://bhusers.upf.e...2/Behar2010.pdf

Source:

The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people (2010)
doi:10.1038/nature09103

A Jewish Diaspora INTO Africa doesn't not constitute an origin FROM Africa.

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#26    Tor_Hershman

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:18 PM

I can see that a number of you folk really do believe in flying saucers.

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#27    Abramelin

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:06 PM

View PostTor_Hershman, on 27 January 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

Well, if you didn't hear anything "New" you've must of listened to one of my recordings before
'cause I'm the first person, that I know of, to make the "AMEN" connection.

BTW Not a single refutation exists in any of the replies; the latest, know to myself & published in
"Nature," DNA research only states that the DNA evidence shows that Jewish folk originated in the Near-East &
Egypt is considered part of that geo-sphere.

I haven't watched/listened to any video from you before, but the AMEN thing has been discussed on this site.

==

The Near East: that could also be Western Arabia, right? You know, the area north of Mecca (or Makkah as the Saudis want us to spell the city's name)?

==

Can you post a link to that DNA research?

.

Edited by Abramelin, 27 January 2013 - 10:08 PM.


#28    coolguy

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:54 AM

I think all the middle east people are basically the same

Edited by coolguy, 28 January 2013 - 04:55 AM.


#29    Tor_Hershman

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:51 PM

View Postcoolguy, on 28 January 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

I think all the middle east people are basically the same

View Postcoolguy, on 28 January 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

I think all the middle east people are basically the same

Ahhhh, yes, all people are basically the same.  
There are many breeds but only one race, the human race.

I enjoyed seeing your avatar.  
As I oft times state,
"You can not clean away a spot of light, as the great masters Moe,  Larry & Curly teach."  
Hence I added a public domain clip, of their's, to this wee video.



#30    Tor_Hershman

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:59 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 27 January 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

I haven't watched/listened to any video from you before, but the AMEN thing has been discussed on this site.

==

The Near East: that could also be Western Arabia, right? You know, the area north of Mecca (or Makkah as the Saudis want us to spell the city's name)?

==

Can you post a link to that DNA research?

.

Perhaps yea, the AMEN thing may have been discussed here BUT DO those discussions  predate my online posting of
that info.?  Can you post a link to THOSE discussions here @ Unexplained Mysteries?
I'll try a search to find 'em.

If you want a link, try googling
nature magazine jews DNA,
google is your friend.





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