215 replies to this topic

[DieChecker]

The Silver Thong, on 04 February 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

The politicians will first make the miltary think that there own citizins are the enemy just as we see the police being trained to think that now.

That might work if we did not have a Volinteer Military. Most soldiers serve only 3 to 5 years. The soldiers ARE the Citizens. If we had a soldier class with permanently employed soldiers, then we'd have to worry, as their entire lives would be wrapped up in support of their government which pays them. A soldier with less then a year left in the military is not going to believe that.

[DieChecker]

ninjadude, on 04 February 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

again, ancient history. Are you going to cling to this fear mongering for the next 50 years? In the CURRENT year the statistics are quite different.

What Ninja is refering to is his earlier links (Maybe not in this thread?) that point out that the BALANCE of immigration is down to near a zero change. Meaning as many people are taking their earnings/savings and heading back to Mexico as are coming into the US. If we had 1 million people coming north last year, we could have 1.5 million coming north this year... as long as the number of people going back south is also increasing. Means very little toward the security and prevention of illegal Border Crossings. It is just a statistic number used for arguements sake.

People are still crossing North, it is just that many are crossing South also. You know, sort of like how people travel between New York and Pennsylvania. How people would travel over an Open Border.

Edited by DieChecker, 04 February 2013 - 07:07 PM.

[Frank Merton]

DieChecker, on 04 February 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

That might work if we did not have a Volinteer Military. Most soldiers serve only 3 to 5 years. The soldiers ARE the Citizens. If we had a soldier class with permanently employed soldiers, then we'd have to worry, as their entire lives would be wrapped up in support of their government which pays them. A soldier with less then a year left in the military is not going to believe that.

So the key to having a volunteer army not become a Praetorian Guard is to keep their terms of duty fairly short.  Makes sense.

[CrimsonKing]

Frank Merton, on 04 February 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

I'm not sure I appreciate your implication, which is a bit snide, as I would not stand around doing nothing.  There is a difference between force and lethal force.

I remember one time one the back of a motorbike (the way we generally get around in Vietnam) wandering into some restricted property on the way to look at some real estate, and a smiling but very young and very well armed soldier comes out to tell us we must turn around (in the process using the most friendly and respectful pronoun available in the language).  My friend who was driving didn't want to -- we just want to go "over there."  "No, the man said, you can not do that (less friendly, more formal pronoun)."  I nudged my friend and said, "Sun, the man has a gun and his hand is on it.  Come to your senses."

Well we turned around and went a longer route.  I upchucked a few minutes later.

You make my point for me,he had a gun you didnt.If he wanted to he could have done anything he wanted to and there would have been nothing either one of you could have done but died.If a criminal has a gun pointed at you,it is better to fight fire with fire and hope you are the better shot.It is atleast 50/50 then.

[Capt Amerika]

RavenHawk, on 04 February 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

Are you going to cling to ignorance all your life?  And what do the current statistics state?  That more illegals were caught last year?  What fraction of the total that get through is that?  Nothing has changed in the past 30 years.  That is not ancient history.  It's status quo.  Obama hasn't done anything to close the border.  Closing the border means 0% get through.  You need a series of palisades and redoubts linking non-lethal killing zones of burms and ditches between 300 to 500 yards deep.  It won't prevent people from coming through but by the time they get to the other side, they'll be so exhausted that they could be collected easily.  A pure fence will only encourage them.  An obvious obstacle that will wear them out would be more effective.  And before they are deported, they could be used to maintain the line.  Use the terrain to benefit the defender, not the infiltrator.  But if you want to discuss illegals then I suggest you start a new thread.

The Great Wall of America!
It did wonders in China, think of the employment opportunities and the only way in is through the approved border crossing stations built into it.
You drive spikes so deep into the ground tunneling is impossible and you stop the nonsense.
Fences do nothing.  Massive brick and mortar structures on the other hand.....

[DieChecker]

Capt Amerika, on 04 February 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

The Great Wall of America!
It did wonders in China, think of the employment opportunities and the only way in is through the approved border crossing stations built into it.
You drive spikes so deep into the ground tunneling is impossible and you stop the nonsense.
Fences do nothing.  Massive brick and mortar structures on the other hand.....

Landmines. And signs warning of landmines. After a couple dozen people go BOOM! after ignoring the signs, crossings in that area will cease. Once the crossings have ceased in an area, the signs alone (fear) will prevent crossings.

[RavenHawk]

DieChecker, on 04 February 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

What Ninja is refering to is his earlier links (Maybe not in this thread?) that point out that the BALANCE of immigration is down to near a zero change. Meaning as many people are taking their earnings/savings and heading back to Mexico as are coming into the US. If we had 1 million people coming north last year, we could have 1.5 million coming north this year... as long as the number of people going back south is also increasing. Means very little toward the security and prevention of illegal Border Crossings. It is just a statistic number used for arguements sake.

Now that you say that, that sounds familiar.  Sounds like the tripe he would push.  Some *balance*.  I think that this kind of scale needs to be skewed so that no one crosses either way.

Quote

People are still crossing North, it is just that many are crossing South also. You know, sort of like how people travel between New York and Pennsylvania. How people would travel over an Open Border.

This should not be an open border.  The last time I looked, Chihuahua and Coahuila are not like NY or PA.

[RavenHawk]

Capt Amerika, on 04 February 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

The Great Wall of America!
It did wonders in China, think of the employment opportunities and the only way in is through the approved border crossing stations built into it.
You drive spikes so deep into the ground tunneling is impossible and you stop the nonsense.
Fences do nothing.  Massive brick and mortar structures on the other hand.....

Something like that.  But you are correct in that fences do nothing.  They are a single point of defense (a single point of failure).  Anything Man-made can easily be defeated.  But a wall would be too expensive.  It would be better to have a line in the sand.

DieChecker, on 04 February 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Landmines. And signs warning of landmines. After a couple dozen people go BOOM! after ignoring the signs, crossings in that area will cease. Once the crossings have ceased in an area, the signs alone (fear) will prevent crossings.

As much as landmines would be fun, it wouldn't persuade the crossings to stop.  You need to dishearten them trying to cross a barrier as I had described earlier would do wonders in discouraging them.  Have helicopters fly overhead harassing them until they either turn around or give up.

[DieChecker]

RavenHawk, on 04 February 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

Now that you say that, that sounds familiar.  Sounds like the tripe he would push.  Some *balance*.  I think that this kind of scale needs to be skewed so that no one crosses either way.

This should not be an open border.  The last time I looked, Chihuahua and Coahuila are not like NY or PA.

Agree. The border should be Closed except where we have checkpoints.

[DieChecker]

RavenHawk, on 04 February 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

Something like that.  But you are correct in that fences do nothing.  They are a single point of defense (a single point of failure).  Anything Man-made can easily be defeated.  But a wall would be too expensive.  It would be better to have a line in the sand.


As much as landmines would be fun, it wouldn't persuade the crossings to stop.  You need to dishearten them trying to cross a barrier as I had described earlier would do wonders in discouraging them.  Have helicopters fly overhead harassing them until they either turn around or give up.

I don't think the fences do nothing. They certainly prevented illegals from large scale convoys of trucks just driving across. But they do little to prevent foot traffic.

I think the landmines would be pretty disheartening. It seemed to help keep the people of North Korea from crossing the DMZ. One of the main ingredients there is landmines. And they are cheap and passive. No patrolling necessary.

I think that the US would never do that however, so probably guardposts, with more active patrolling is what is going to have to happen.

[regeneratia]

Hunting is NOT why I want a gun. It is NOT why I have a gun. Hunting is NOT why I am seeking to buy more guns.
I buy guns because I refuse to be enslaved.

If you want to protest something, protest the armed forces use of depleted uranium, that have killed our own and strangers.

Those who don't understand the need to own and stock guns must well be extremely domesticated unaware and living in invisable but gilded enslavement.

Edited by regeneratia, 05 February 2013 - 01:08 AM.

[DieChecker]

regeneratia, on 05 February 2013 - 01:06 AM, said:

Hunting is NOT why I want a gun. It is NOT why I have a gun. Hunting is NOT why I am seeking to buy more guns.
I buy guns because I refuse to be enslaved.

If you want to protest something, protest the armed forces use of depleted uranium, that have killed our own and strangers.

Those who don't understand the need to own and stock guns must well be extremely domesticated unaware and living in invisable but gilded enslavement.

Damn. I don't agree with you on much, but I do on this post!!

[Jinxdom]

Why bother closing the border when you can open it up. Allow the employment of illegal citizens and do not enforce minimum wage laws for them, just add paperwork to track them and allow them to get citizenship later on where the standard wages would apply so we can start bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US(Sorry China not a fan). It may sound cruel but it isn't gives them an opportunity to actually prove their self worth and usefulness to our country. Invite them in and let them do the work we don't want to do. Seriously landmines?!?.

[mysticwerewolf]

here's one reason i wany ten thousand rounds of ammo  twelve laws rockets,  fifty Wp grenades and all the other ship that the army gets to have
http://openchannel.n...-americans?lite

[DieChecker]

Jinxdom, on 05 February 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

Seriously landmines?!?.

Not seriously....