215 replies to this topic

[WoIverine]

aztek, on 29 January 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

no one needs a 6000lb suv, to get around, they are dangerous in crashes, a 5000sqft house, also no one needs, ppl live for years in 8x12 cells, and 30 pairs of shoes??? why support slave labour in china, that makes these shoes??
actually it takes 1 (one) bullet to kill deer.
bears and javelines however will tear you to shreads if you don't kill them with 1 shot and p*** them off, even 20 might not be enough when hurt angry javeline\bear goes at you.

Javelines? Like the throwing kind? Never heard of an animal called a "javeline" before.

[RavenHawk]

AsteroidX, on 30 January 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

That ones a little iffy to me as there was to be no standing army at the time. So its hard to tell what they would have said in regards to that.

It doesn't need to be a standing army.  The Declaration of Independence gives us the Right to cast off a tyrannical government.  It doesn't restrict by what means.  I'm sure that they would agree.  That's why the 2nd is 2nd and the 3rd follows which the reason for it is kind of misunderstood today.  It subordinates military authority to civilian control and safeguards against abuses that can be perpetrated by standing armies and professional soldiers.  This undoubtedly led to the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 but that was more of an understanding between the people and the military rather than a law.  But the 3rd is a companion to the 2nd which would indicate something more than having a Right to hunt or personal defense.

Congress has the Right to raise an army for no more than a two year period.  That is why we have a Defense Appropriation bill every two years to "renew" the contract.  Some of the Founding Fathers did want a standing army but others thought that a militia would be able to meet our needs.  But as it turns out, it was not sufficient.  The Constitution leaves it open as to what organization is used for the Common Defense.  Now I've talked about the period from 1783 to 1815 many times which established the need for a standing army.  When Harmar & St Clair were defeated in 1790 & 91, Washington tasked General Wayne to establish the Legion of the United States.  Which was a rebuilding of a standing army and of which our current military is based on today.  Wayne then defeated the Indian forces and opened up the Old North West and allowed Jefferson to send out Lewis and Clark.  Wayne's actions triggered Manifest Destiny.  The standing army is an integral part of our history.

[RavenHawk]

Wearer of Hats, on 30 January 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

Who wants to pass the hat around for a few cruise missiles?

If the public can properly maintain them, then sure - why not.  And that would go for a thermal-nuclear device.  But I must reiterate that the operative here is "properly maintain".

[aztek]

WoIverine, on 30 January 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Javelines? Like the throwing kind? Never heard of an animal called a "javeline" before.

lol, my mistake, i spelled it wrong,  it is javelinah. a wild pig.

http://www.javelinah...images/Pig1.jpg

[questionmark]

RavenHawk, on 30 January 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

If the public can properly maintain them, then sure - why not.  And that would go for a thermal-nuclear device.  But I must reiterate that the operative here is "properly maintain".

And leave the trigger for the system on the nightstand... locking it up would be "horrible gun control"

[questionmark]

aztek, on 30 January 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

lol, my mistake, i spelled it wrong,  it is javelinah. a wild pig.

http://www.javelinah...images/Pig1.jpg

I don't know what kind of boars you are talking about, but the average American wild hog can be killed with an airgun:

[aztek]

AsteroidX, on 30 January 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

I dont live in a plywood and cardboard house. Im not far from a cardboard box but I digress. Id get in contact with your real estate agent because if you paid more then 217$ for that house you paid too much.

neither do i, mine is reinforced concrette,  but most amercans do, plywood and sheetrock with vinyl siding, .223 will go thru few such wall no problem, not to mention 7.62x39.

[AsteroidX]

Quote

Congress has the Right to raise an army for no more than a two year period.  That is why we have a Defense Appropriation bill every two years to "renew" the contract.  Some of the Founding Fathers did want a standing army but others thought that a militia would be able to meet our needs.  But as it turns out, it was not sufficient.  The Constitution leaves it open as to what organization is used for the Common Defense.  Now I've talked about the period from 1783 to 1815 many times which established the need for a standing army.  When Harmar & St Clair were defeated in 1790 & 91, Washington tasked General Wayne to establish the Legion of the United States.  Which was a rebuilding of a standing army and of which our current military is based on today.  Wayne then defeated the Indian forces and opened up the Old North West and allowed Jefferson to send out Lewis and Clark.  Wayne's actions triggered Manifest Destiny.  The standing army is an integral part of our history.

prior to this there was quite the bit of opposition to a standing army. Im not certain what the eventual push was to creating it but piracy certainly played a role.

Quote

Foreign policy

Even after peace had been achieved in 1783, the weakness of the Confederation government frustrated the ability of the government to conduct foreign policy. In 1789, Thomas Jefferson, concerned over the failure to fund an American naval force to confront the Barbary pirates, wrote to James Monroe, "It will be said there is no money in the treasury. There never will be money in the treasury till the Confederacy shows its teeth. The states must see the rod.”^[21]
Furthermore, the Jay–Gardoqui Treaty with Spain in 1789 also showed weakness in foreign policy. In this treaty — which was never ratified due to its immense unpopularity — the United States was to give up rights to use the Mississippi River for 25 years, which would have economically strangled the settlers west of the Appalachian Mountains. Finally, due to the Confederation's military weakness, it could not compel the British army to leave frontier forts which were on American soil — forts which, in 1783, the British promised to leave, but which they delayed leaving pending U.S. implementation of other provisions such as ending action against Loyalists and allowing them to seek compensation. This incomplete British implementation of the Treaty of Paris (1783) was superseded by the implementation of Jay's Treaty in 1795 under the new U.S. Constitution.


from: http://en.wikipedia....f_Confederation

[aztek]

questionmark, on 30 January 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

I don't know what kind of boars you are talking about, but the average American wild hog can be killed with an airgun:

lol. don't show your ignorance, air guns that take wild pigs are not .177 airgun you buy at walmart, you need ,357, or bigger caliber. they are more lethal than .22 rifles.

so what was your point???

Edited by aztek, 30 January 2013 - 06:10 PM.

[Corp]

RavenHawk, on 30 January 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

If the public can properly maintain them, then sure - why not.  And that would go for a thermal-nuclear device.  But I must reiterate that the operative here is "properly maintain".

...you want private citizens to have access to nukes?


Anyway as with most matters surrounding the gun control debate this is just still. There's talk of limiting the size of the mag, not the total number of bullets one person can own. I don't see how this over the top talk is helping anything. Just makes the US seems like a dictatorship filled with violent criminals, and the US is a much better country than that. When your opponents go crazy you should let them, not try to match their crazy.


On the issue of having a standing army I think seeing how useless the militia were in the War of 1812 helped drive home that a regular standing army was needed.

[questionmark]

aztek, on 30 January 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

lol. don't show your ignorance, air guns that take wild pigs are not .177 airgun you buy at walmart, you need ,357, or bigger caliber. they are more lethal than .22 rifles.

Ehm, yes... and they have a muzzle velocity much lower than any of those castrated ARs, therefore a much lower penetrating punch. So your point is...?

[aztek]

questionmark, on 30 January 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

Ehm, yes... and they have a muzzle velocity much lower than any of those castrated ARs, therefore a much lower penetrating punch. So your point is...?

so?? their bullets weigh a lot more than ar bullet. brush up on your high school physics klnowlege, than learn thing or two about hunting. may be than i will stop seeing you as a clown, otoh, pbly not.

oh, btw. my point that you have no idea what you talking about. and the fact that certain air rifles can take a wild pig has absolutely no relavance in this thread.

Edited by aztek, 30 January 2013 - 06:25 PM.

[RavenHawk]

AsteroidX, on 30 January 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

We got the criminals  too.

http://www.earlyamer....com/publishing

We were the first Botany Bay.  They were called indentured servants.  After a period of say, 7 years servitude, they gained their freedom.  But that's how the Crown saw the Colonies as a whole, as low lifes.  Very much like the current Administration does.

[AsteroidX]

Quote

We were the first Botany Bay.  They were called indentured servants.  After a period of say, 7 years servitude, they gained their freedom.  But that's how the Crown saw the Colonies as a whole, as low lifes.  Very much like the current Administration does.

They liked to use the word apprentice when expressing a white mans slavery as it ended after a period of time. I agree with that and it is our real history.

[questionmark]

aztek, on 30 January 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

so?? their bullets weigh a lot more than ar bullet. brush up on your high school physics klnowlege, than learn thing or two about hunting. may be than i will stop seeing you as a clown, otoh, pbly not.

oh, btw. my point that you have no idea what you talking about. and the fact that certain air rifles can take a wild pig has absolutely no relavance in this thread.

See, and now we have somebody who pretends he knows something not knowing what he is talking about. First rule of ballistics: " The impact power is composed of the product of the bullet speed and weight". An AR with its muzzle velocity of over 2000 feet and a caliber 2/3 to that Ranger will on any day beat it in impact strength and penetration given the fact that the Ranger has a velocity of less than 700 feet.

And the fact that an air rifle can take out a pig is relevant, especially in that video, as the guy killed it with 1 shot.

Anybody who needs ten to do the same thing should get indicted under cruelty to animal laws.

Edit, wrong word

Edited by questionmark, 30 January 2013 - 06:42 PM.