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Israel airstrikes in Syria (confirmed)


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#136    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:14 PM

View Postand then, on 06 February 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Ex, how long are you going to take such an embarrassing uber legalistic view of this situation?  So unless courtroom quality proof can be offered for Iran working on components - including the most important one, fuel,  - then you cannot even imagine that they might be trying to position themselves for a bomb?  Do you require such a standard for ANYTHING else you discuss?  Frankly, people will stop taking what you say seriously if you keep up such an illogical pattern of absolute denial.  NO ONE in the world community any longer doubts Iran's intentions in this NOR do they think it is a beneficial course for the world.  You know, it is possible to acknowledge their attempt for nukes yet not approve of specific actions being considered against them - you just have to be honest about  where you stand.

edit to clarify that when I say NO ONE I mean world governments that aren't doing billions in business with Iran.

And Then, your own government states openly that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program! They are the most knowledgable intelligence gathering agency in the World. How long are you going to keep portraying my view as unreasonable? It is not just that there is no proof of an actual program, it is the fact that the combined intelligence community of the West is unanimous in agreement that there is no program!
!!

....

!!!


#137    skookum

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:29 PM

Don't want to harp on about the Stealth Fighter and size ( I think it might be R/C).

A modern MIRV is small.  In fact I could fit about 3-4 in a Ford Mondeo.  Even the smallest fighter could carry that amount.  Given the Russian and american power estimate of about 5 times Hiroshima per MIRV, even an 20% MIRV dropped from a fighter is very worrying.

But would a middle east nation drop a bomb on Israel unless attacked?  Well Iraq launched a good few Scuds on Israel in the 90's unprovoked by them.  Many British SAS men lost their lives taking out Scud threats too stop a Jihad starting.

Not that they or their families will get sympathy for stopping an all out blood bath.  It will be buried as propaganda.

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#138    and then

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:06 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 08 February 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

And Then, your own government states openly that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program! They are the most knowledgable intelligence gathering agency in the World. How long are you going to keep portraying my view as unreasonable? It is not just that there is no proof of an actual program, it is the fact that the combined intelligence community of the West is unanimous in agreement that there is no program!
!!

....

!!!
They and you and all others making such statements are playing word games IMO.  Their "program" would not exactly be something done in plain view, now would it?  The only evidence that is actually available is the refinement processes and even some of those might be hidden - remember what a surprise Fordow was?  By far the most difficult part of any bomb making venture is this refinement process.  Assembling a gun type (Hiroshima) weapon can be done by a physics grad student and it doesn't even need testing.  I have no doubt that Iran is not on the verge of assembling a weapon today.  But they are amassing the fuel to do so when they judge the time to be right.  Assembly is the easiest part of the job and can be done secretly.  You simply seem to be unconcerned with whether they have the bomb or not and that's your prerogative - but it truly baffles me that an educated and socially aware individual could see no jeopardy here.  Truth is nothing except an all out declaration of war to destroy all their infrastructure and a big part of their military capacity (missiles) could stop them from having the bomb when they want to build it now so it has become a moot point.  Ship has sailed on that possibility.  And not just for Iran I think, but for any other tinpot nation with the money to buy from the DPRK or Iran in the future.  This must be what it was like for thinking people in the '30s - they had to see it coming - nothing to be done except starting a pre-emptive war and that was and is just unacceptable.  So we will deal with the war once THEY decide when and where they want to push it to the limit.

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  for what could be, the darkest age...
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#139    acidhead

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:03 AM

View PostStellar, on 07 February 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

You realise Canada kicked out Iranian diplomats a few months back because they were using the embassy to smuggle in potential saboteurs to the country?

Don't accept everything you hear from this Conservative GOV in Canada as the voice of the majority.

Edited by acidhead, 09 February 2013 - 05:09 AM.



"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#140    acidhead

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:07 AM

View PostZaphod222, on 07 February 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

Wrong paradigm. The Iranian mullah government is first and foremost guided by radical islamic doctrine, and by the Shiite "12er" teaching in particular. That is the foundation for their jihad against Israel, against the "Great Satan" USA, and for their Middle Eastern policy of dominating the Sunni countries in the region.
If you are unaware of that, you have not done your homework.
Start by reading history, of the region, and that of Khomeinis revolution in particular.

History.

Historically Iran has always been a major player in the region.  Nothing will change this fact.

They are a player in this global corporate GOV game.



"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#141    acidhead

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:53 AM

View Postacidhead, on 09 February 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

History.

Historically Iran has always been a major player in the region.  Nothing will change this fact.

They are a player in this global corporate GOV game.

Same with Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and of course Palestine...:)



"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#142    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:38 AM

View Postand then, on 08 February 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

They and you and all others making such statements are playing word games IMO.  Their "program" would not exactly be something done in plain view, now would it?  The only evidence that is actually available is the refinement processes and even some of those might be hidden - remember what a surprise Fordow was?  By far the most difficult part of any bomb making venture is this refinement process.  Assembling a gun type (Hiroshima) weapon can be done by a physics grad student and it doesn't even need testing.  I have no doubt that Iran is not on the verge of assembling a weapon today.  But they are amassing the fuel to do so when they judge the time to be right.  Assembly is the easiest part of the job and can be done secretly.  You simply seem to be unconcerned with whether they have the bomb or not and that's your prerogative - but it truly baffles me that an educated and socially aware individual could see no jeopardy here.  Truth is nothing except an all out declaration of war to destroy all their infrastructure and a big part of their military capacity (missiles) could stop them from having the bomb when they want to build it now so it has become a moot point.  Ship has sailed on that possibility.  And not just for Iran I think, but for any other tinpot nation with the money to buy from the DPRK or Iran in the future.  This must be what it was like for thinking people in the '30s - they had to see it coming - nothing to be done except starting a pre-emptive war and that was and is just unacceptable.  So we will deal with the war once THEY decide when and where they want to push it to the limit.

Oh aye, word games. The biggest threat to U.S./British hegemony in the region and they're keeping it under wraps for what purpose? They have shown that they are willing to go to war for far lesser supposed causes, so why on earth would they lie about something that goes directly against their own foreign policy objectives? Your theory makes no sense.

Fordow wasn't a surprise. Iran announced its existence more than 6 months before it went active. Under the IAEA regulations they only have to do so 6 months in advance. And you can bet that U.S. drones and spy planes were already long aware of the construction.

"Assembling a gun type (Hiroshima) weapon can be done by a physics grad student and it doesn't even need testing."

Would you care to show proof of this?

You have no doubt they are assembling one? This is no more than rumour and hear-say. It is gossip and warmongering and your hopes of end-day prophesy coming to a head all rolled into one. All evidence and all intelligence regarding this matter disagrees with your view. They don't even have a weapons program.

You can keep peddling this nonsense, along with any other ill informed people, but just remember that there are plenty of people in the World who know that what you preach is bulls***.


#143    and then

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 03:05 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 09 February 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Oh aye, word games. The biggest threat to U.S./British hegemony in the region and they're keeping it under wraps for what purpose? They have shown that they are willing to go to war for far lesser supposed causes, so why on earth would they lie about something that goes directly against their own foreign policy objectives? Your theory makes no sense.

Fordow wasn't a surprise. Iran announced its existence more than 6 months before it went active. Under the IAEA regulations they only have to do so 6 months in advance. And you can bet that U.S. drones and spy planes were already long aware of the construction.

"Assembling a gun type (Hiroshima) weapon can be done by a physics grad student and it doesn't even need testing."

Would you care to show proof of this?

You have no doubt they are assembling one? This is no more than rumour and hear-say. It is gossip and warmongering and your hopes of end-day prophesy coming to a head all rolled into one. All evidence and all intelligence regarding this matter disagrees with your view. They don't even have a weapons program.

You can keep peddling this nonsense, along with any other ill informed people, but just remember that there are plenty of people in the World who know that what you preach is bulls***.
And you can keep displaying your naivete but be sure there are many who know it for what it is.


How two students built an A-bomb

It's one of the burning questions of the moment: how easy would it be for a country with no nuclear expertise to build an A-bomb? Forty years ago in a top-secret project, the US military set about finding out. Oliver Burkeman talks to the men who solved the nuclear puzzle in just 30 months
http://www.guardian..../24/usa.science


Edited by and then, 09 February 2013 - 03:05 PM.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#144    Frank Merton

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 03:08 PM

One of these days I would say there is a high possibility that a city somewhere will be destroyed by a nuclear explosion.

I suspect that will change the world.  If you think the powers are against nuclear proliferation now, guess what will happen then?  And guess what will happen to the powers of agencies like Homeland Security?


#145    and then

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 03:12 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 09 February 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Oh aye, word games. The biggest threat to U.S./British hegemony in the region and they're keeping it under wraps for what purpose? They have shown that they are willing to go to war for far lesser supposed causes, so why on earth would they lie about something that goes directly against their own foreign policy objectives? Your theory makes no sense.

Fordow wasn't a surprise. Iran announced its existence more than 6 months before it went active. Under the IAEA regulations they only have to do so 6 months in advance. And you can bet that U.S. drones and spy planes were already long aware of the construction.

"Assembling a gun type (Hiroshima) weapon can be done by a physics grad student and it doesn't even need testing."

Would you care to show proof of this?

You have no doubt they are assembling one? This is no more than rumour and hear-say. It is gossip and warmongering and your hopes of end-day prophesy coming to a head all rolled into one. All evidence and all intelligence regarding this matter disagrees with your view. They don't even have a weapons program.

You can keep peddling this nonsense, along with any other ill informed people, but just remember that there are plenty of people in the World who know that what you preach is bulls***.
As to the rest of your diatribe - you might try actually READING what I said - you have an assumption of me based on your own bias and you read that right into something you thought I would say when I actually said EXACTLY the opposite.  I said I "have no doubt they are NOT assembling a bomb".  If you, in your pitiable arrogance want to continue in willful ignorance of the state of the world today and what the threats are because you'd rather point out all the faults of your own and other western style governments then rock on, man.  No doubt when the reality of it comes crashing in on you you'll be able to justify your position - only problem is there won't be ANYONE listening to the bull**** anymore.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#146    Hyades

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 03:59 PM

I don't know if this was published here, I did a search, nothing came out, so here it is!

The author Ken O'Keefe on Israel Grand Project, interesting!

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be


#147    and then

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 11:13 PM

View PostHyades, on 11 December 2015 - 03:59 PM, said:

I don't know if this was published here, I did a search, nothing came out, so here it is!

The author Ken O'Keefe on Israel Grand Project, interesting!

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be
In a certain anti semitic sort of way, yes, I'd agree :)  People never tire of new variations on the old theme of - JEWS TAKE OVER THE WORLD... kind of pathetic to still be seeing it in the 21st century but hey, we gotta have SOMEONE to blame, huh?  The problems certainly couldn't be US, now could they?

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#148    Hyades

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 05:11 PM

View Postand then, on 11 December 2015 - 11:13 PM, said:

In a certain anti semitic sort of way, yes, I'd agree :)  People never tire of new variations on the old theme of - JEWS TAKE OVER THE WORLD... kind of pathetic to still be seeing it in the 21st century but hey, we gotta have SOMEONE to blame, huh?  The problems certainly couldn't be US, now could they?

When a Nation does things that is against the Geneva Convention, the Fundamental Principles of life by the International Communities, then, it should be ''anti-....'' classification.

Well, the Web has many Sites indicating that the Jews Leadership has a Master Plan.  And when one look at what is going on in Middle East, it really look like this, who was behind the US intervention in Iraq? And what came out of the US intervention in Iraq?  Actually, this Nation is somewhat dismembered, Turkey, US, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Israel, want a part of it.  And a similar situation is underway in Syria, it might be difficult there with Russia intervention.

I don't think that we need to be in the ''blaming'' thing, when a Nation kill, maim, people and kids, where's the logic?  But, with the help, protection, warring if necessary, of the most powerful Nation on Earth, everything is possible!

If there is a culprit to be find, IMHO, it would be with the Financial System, they need to activate the economy such that money circulates, otherwise, the riche don't get what they expect.  We have example from the I, II WW, Vietman, other wars.

Edited by Hyades, 12 December 2015 - 05:13 PM.


#149    and then

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 09:06 PM

View PostHyades, on 12 December 2015 - 05:11 PM, said:

When a Nation does things that is against the Geneva Convention, the Fundamental Principles of life by the International Communities, then, it should be ''anti-....'' classification.

Well, the Web has many Sites indicating that the Jews Leadership has a Master Plan.  And when one look at what is going on in Middle East, it really look like this, who was behind the US intervention in Iraq? And what came out of the US intervention in Iraq?  Actually, this Nation is somewhat dismembered, Turkey, US, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Israel, want a part of it.  And a similar situation is underway in Syria, it might be difficult there with Russia intervention.

I don't think that we need to be in the ''blaming'' thing, when a Nation kill, maim, people and kids, where's the logic?  But, with the help, protection, warring if necessary, of the most powerful Nation on Earth, everything is possible!

If there is a culprit to be find, IMHO, it would be with the Financial System, they need to activate the economy such that money circulates, otherwise, the riche don't get what they expect.  We have example from the I, II WW, Vietman, other wars.
I think there is much truth in what you say but when you post such things about Israel it immediately tarnishes your credibility.  The facts about Israel are pretty clear to anyone who doesn't begin the game with a hatred of them.  
They and the Palestinians (who were primarily squatters) were offered land and a state in Palestine by the WORLD community. They accepted it.  The Palestinians could not due to the injunctions of their religion and historical traditions.
The surrounding Arab/Muslim armies attacked Israel as soon as it announced Statehood.
The Arabs LOST.
The Arabs continued to fight small actions against the Jews for years until they thought (1967) they had the strength to finally win.
Again, they lost.
6 years later Egypt and Syria tried AGAIN.  The whole darned world came close to the brink when Nixon moved US forces to DefCon 3.
In '82 Arafat and his merry band were run out of Israel into south Lebanon and began singing the Katushya symphony.  Ariel Sharon took the IDF north and kicked out of THERE also. And yes, I am aware of Sabra and Shatilla.  It was a war crime and Sharon should have paid for that lack of control but even THEN it was not an Israeli crime against the enemy.
Finally, with much pressure from the US and EU Israel decided to try again.  They pulled all troops from Gaza and all troops from southern Lebanon.  There would be peace if they did that.  Iran created, funded and armed Hizballah in southern Lebanon and Hamas took over in Gaza.  Those areas were militarized against Israel.
There is much more but the pattern is clear.  Israel has at least TRIED to find a peaceful solution.  There are elements within the country and government that firmly believe (as do I) that the God of the Bible promised them that land from the Nile to the Euphrates and those people -a clear minority - want to settle and possess that land NOW.  The promise was unending and it WILL happen but God never said they could have it all while in disobedience to him.  
The majority of Israeli Jews are secular, many of those, atheist.  They are weary of war and would give even part of Jerusalem to make the wars and bloodshed stop.  They have tried, over and over and always it is the Palestinian leaders who walk away.  Always.  
During Obama's terms, Abbas stopped even trying to seem reasonable.  He set preconditions that nearly all his demands be met PRIOR to even discussing peace.
So there will be no peace yet.  But mind you, it WILL come.  A treaty of 7 years will be confirmed between Israel and the "many".  Those 7 years begin the day that instrument is signed.  They will be the worst period of time this earth has ever or WILL ever know.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#150    Hyades

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 12:11 AM

View Postand then, on 12 December 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

I think there is much truth in what you say but when you post such things about Israel it immediately tarnishes your credibility.  The facts about Israel are pretty clear to anyone who doesn't begin the game with a hatred of them.  
They and the Palestinians (who were primarily squatters) were offered land and a state in Palestine by the WORLD community. They accepted it.  The Palestinians could not due to the injunctions of their religion and historical traditions.
The surrounding Arab/Muslim armies attacked Israel as soon as it announced Statehood.
The Arabs LOST.
The Arabs continued to fight small actions against the Jews for years until they thought (1967) they had the strength to finally win.
Again, they lost.
6 years later Egypt and Syria tried AGAIN.  The whole darned world came close to the brink when Nixon moved US forces to DefCon 3.
In '82 Arafat and his merry band were run out of Israel into south Lebanon and began singing the Katushya symphony.  Ariel Sharon took the IDF north and kicked out of THERE also. And yes, I am aware of Sabra and Shatilla.  It was a war crime and Sharon should have paid for that lack of control but even THEN it was not an Israeli crime against the enemy.
Finally, with much pressure from the US and EU Israel decided to try again.  They pulled all troops from Gaza and all troops from southern Lebanon.  There would be peace if they did that.  Iran created, funded and armed Hizballah in southern Lebanon and Hamas took over in Gaza.  Those areas were militarized against Israel.
There is much more but the pattern is clear.  Israel has at least TRIED to find a peaceful solution.  There are elements within the country and government that firmly believe (as do I) that the God of the Bible promised them that land from the Nile to the Euphrates and those people -a clear minority - want to settle and possess that land NOW.  The promise was unending and it WILL happen but God never said they could have it all while in disobedience to him.  
The majority of Israeli Jews are secular, many of those, atheist.  They are weary of war and would give even part of Jerusalem to make the wars and bloodshed stop.  They have tried, over and over and always it is the Palestinian leaders who walk away.  Always.  
During Obama's terms, Abbas stopped even trying to seem reasonable.  He set preconditions that nearly all his demands be met PRIOR to even discussing peace.
So there will be no peace yet.  But mind you, it WILL come.  A treaty of 7 years will be confirmed between Israel and the "many".  Those 7 years begin the day that instrument is signed.  They will be the worst period of time this earth has ever or WILL ever know.


Thanks for the first comment, and then you add, ''tarnishes my credibility'', I present facts, not unbiased comments, and I'm not in the hatred game.  I congratulate you on fighting hard to defend the Jews, not their leaders, and it's great of you!  But you see, you defending a Nation that goes toward his own perdition.  I invite you to read the following link that will have you ponder of the future destination of this Nation.   The author is elaborating different theories that are really interesting, and I know that it will touch you somehow.

http://www.globalres...ensible/5494974

Arabs lost - you sure have pondered on why they lost, first the Arabs were not supported financially and logistically by the most powerful military of the World.  The Arabs were not important to the US.  Any Nation with this kind of support can't loose a war!

Palestinians, Israelis Leadership don't want a peace process, it make their day, their leaders travel all around the World, attend big dinner, beautiful hotel, they don't want any peace, they want the statu-quo.  That's  how I feel about this very controversial situation, unfortunately, it's the people who paid the price of being stab, being maim, etc.





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