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Atheism - any contradictions or 'problems'?


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#196    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:04 PM

View PostTiggs, on 03 February 2013 - 03:34 AM, said:

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And the dates for all of those would be?
That is the question exactly.  There are lots of references to aspects of the Jesus story starting around 90CE with the Gospels and a few apocryphal writings, and as Christianity spread the number of references increases.  The problem is there is nothing from around Jesus time or for over a generation after.

The very first hint of Christianity even existing is Paul, and it shows something of a Jesus-Messiah movement in Asia minor (without the Gospel story, which seems to have evolved later) around 50 - 60 CE.

This was an age of mystery cults, and there was at least one based on each religious tradition in existence.  The two that prevailed longest were the Osiris cult drawn from Egyptian religion and Mithraism drawn from Persian religion, but although they took ideas from these religions, they were both basically Greek in nature.  The same applies to Christianity.  It was a death and resurrection cult drawn from Judaism, but basically Greek in nature.


#197    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:05 PM

View PostCrikey, on 02 February 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

No problemo, we'd still have the Koran for guidance.

It wouldst really exist if the bible never had done  There were many books before the koran....Millions of others do not use any holy book for guidance, Never needed to, be still lead good lives.. What makes you think we should do?  

View Postranrod, on 02 February 2013 - 10:49 PM, said:

This guy is obviously trolling...do not feed the trolls :hmm:

Could well be, I don't know...Or I could say CRIKEY you're right  lol..Pardon the pun

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 03 February 2013 - 02:16 PM.

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#198    Rlyeh

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 02:39 PM

View PostCrikey, on 03 February 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

In 2009 British atheists (fronted by Dawkins natch) raised 150,000 GB pounds (235,000 US dollars) to splash these adverts on British buses-
They must have struck a nerve as you posted the exact crap before; even posted your same misconceptions again. Get some new material, troll.


#199    Crikey

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:29 PM

Now I come to think of it, maybe the Christianity-bashers at UM are not just atheists, but might also be satanists, fairy-worshippers, oddball cultists and similar types, so maybe they should come clean and admit what exactly they are so we can analyse their beliefs in more detail..
For example are there any Pagans here?  Tell us, don't be shy!
Actually I admire Pagans for burning Edward Woodward in a wicker man, he thoroughly desrved it for his bad acting.
And likewse Nicholas Cage got his come-uppance in the remake for squashing that innocent wasp on the pub bar..:)


#200    Crikey

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:32 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 03 February 2013 - 12:40 AM, said:

...Atheism in itself answers no human questions...

Right.. :)


Posted Image

Edited by Crikey, 03 February 2013 - 03:45 PM.


#201    Rlyeh

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 03:54 PM

Crikey is awfully ignorant of human history. How are these for non-christian timelines?

http://ancienthistor...st_my_sumer.htm
http://www.travelchi...story/index.htm
http://humanorigins....ine-interactive

Edited by Rlyeh, 03 February 2013 - 03:57 PM.


#202    White Crane Feather

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:14 PM

uggg the base of spiritual beleifs us not wishful thinking. for some it certainly is, but religions usually start with the spiritual expereinces  of a person, then possibly others, and then we have indoctrination. The " wishful thinking" argumant has no basis in reality and is.....well....wishful thinking.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#203    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:57 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 03 February 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

uggg the base of spiritual beleifs us not wishful thinking. for some it certainly is, but religions usually start with the spiritual expereinces  of a person, then possibly others, and then we have indoctrination. The " wishful thinking" argumant has no basis in reality and is.....well....wishful thinking.
I dunno.  Indoctrination is obviously the reason most people believe in the particular religion they believe in.  It happens during childhood and is constantly reinforced by the culture, so most Thais are Buddhist, most Egyptians are Muslim, most Indians are Hindu, and so on.

Where wishful thinking enters the picture are perhaps (and I'm just making reasonable guesses here) from various forms of wanting to be important or to get attention.  The phenomenon of "false memories," perhaps brought on by the eager questions of pro-belief "investigators," or just the same thing brought on by repeated retelling, with further detail being steadily added.

One clue is the vehemence one gets when one raises and eyebrow or gently suggests a possible alternative explanation.  If the person is seeking alternative explanations, they don't react with anger and a, "I know what I saw," but instead are willing to explore the event with some humility and possible mistake in mind.

I think it was on this thread, but maybe another, where I noted that in my youth I had some to me terribly convincing experiences.  As I've aged, doubts and other possibilities have entered my mind, and I am less sure.  That is probably why nowadays I react as I do.


#204    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:15 PM

View PostCrikey, on 03 February 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

Now I come to think of it, maybe the Christianity-bashers at UM are not just atheists, but might also be satanists, fairy-worshippers, oddball cultists and similar types, so maybe they should come clean and admit what exactly they are so we can analyse their beliefs in more detail..


Everyone, you heard the man.. All form a group ( in a nice orderly fashion )  Crikey wants you to admit what you are, like if you are an oddball cultist  or you worship some fairy..  He wants to put his judging helmet on so he can judge the life out of you.. Sorry analyse you, and what you follow..  So I say  hey why not ?

I am going to put in my weird cult belief first.... Crikey, I worship satanic oddball fairy's... So, what do you think of me?   I want a full analyst  judging report, I think it is good to see a christian offer his judging .. analyizing  services, free of charge,  with no hidden agenda

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 03 February 2013 - 05:18 PM.

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#205    Crikey

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:16 PM

Anybody can cook up a Religious Timeline, but only Christianity is fronted by the Son of God himself, which kinda dilutes the validity of all the rest..;)


#206    Crikey

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:18 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 03 February 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

I worship satanic oddball fairy's... So, what do you think of me?

I bet Becky's proud of you..;)


#207    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:20 PM

View PostCrikey, on 03 February 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

I bet Becky's proud of you.. ;)

She is,. and get this, she loves me too !!!.  Anyway, you call that a full analyst report?   If you were charging for this exercise, I would demand my money back...   Try again..I'll give you another chance, even though my satanic fairy spirit told me not to..

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 03 February 2013 - 05:20 PM.

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#208    Crikey

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:30 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 03 February 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

..you call that a full analyst report?   If you were charging for this exercise, I would demand my money back...   Try again..I'll give you another chance, even though my satanic fairy spirit told me not to..

I wonder why I scare your fairy spirit so much that she doesn't want you to listen to me?
But to get back to your analysis- Tell us why you don't like Jesus, and we'll take it from there..:)


#209    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:32 PM

View PostCrikey, on 03 February 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

I wonder why I scare your fairy spirit so much that she doesn't want you to listen to me?

Your avatar, I think that's it  ..

Quote

     Tell us why you don't like Jesus, and we'll take it from there.                

Because I never trust a guy with long hair and sandals ............

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#210    Frank Merton

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 05:45 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 03 February 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Everyone, you heard the man.. All form a group ( in a nice orderly fashion )  Crikey wants you to admit what you are, like if you are an oddball cultist  or you worship some fairy..  He wants to put his judging helmet on so he can judge the life out of you.. Sorry analyse you, and what you follow..  So I say  hey why not ?
In no particular order, I'm an atheist, a socialist, a non-materialist (regarding things like mind and karma), and a rather bad Buddhist (oh I believe most of Buddhism but I'm nowhere near humble enough and am not seeking Enlightenment).  I also try to follow Kantian ethics and a lot of Plato's political ideas, especially his suspicion of democracy, so in British terms I'm something of a Tory.





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