Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

Atheism - any contradictions or 'problems'?


  • Please log in to reply
309 replies to this topic

#256    White Crane Feather

White Crane Feather

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 11,102 posts
  • Joined:12 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Potter: " is this real or is this in my mind?"

    Dumbledore: " Of course it's in your mind....., but that dosn't mean it's not real."

Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:33 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 05 February 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Religions sure do seem to offer people an excuse for atrocious acts (such as burning people alive) when they are so inclined, but most religious people find their religion deters such things.  I think much the same can be said of atheism.

Most atheists have thought through the consequences of their view on personal morality, and there are lots of different approaches (as there are among theists too).  As a practical matter one finds far more believers in prisons and so on than atheists, although I would be reluctant to attribute that to their atheism but instead to the personality types more likely to become atheists.
Or maby just the fact that there are really not many atheists. Then probably not many atheists in low income circumstances. I don't think who is in prison has anything to do with religion or atheism.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#257    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 14,047 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • fmerton.blogspot.com

Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:40 AM

It may also have something to do with if you profess belief in God you tend to do better with parole boards.


#258    Rlyeh

Rlyeh

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,055 posts
  • Joined:01 Jan 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The sixth circle

  • Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

Posted 05 February 2013 - 07:15 AM

View PostDavid Henson, on 05 February 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

The term atheist, as it is defined as simply as you put it, 'there is no god' is a big problem from the start. According to the Bible, which mentions many gods, some of whom were men, like Moses, Jesus and the Judges of Israel, the term atheist doesn't make sense. It falls right on it's face. In the Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and even modern English, a god can be anything or anyone considered mighty or is venerated. Atheism has to dismiss it's own basic premise from the start. Then it has to limit the meaning of god to apply only to the supernatural, which is incorrect. Then it has to account for the fact that even if a god doesn't literally exist it is still a god. Zeus, for example, isn't a real being, either supernatural or natural, but is still a god. I don't believe in Zeus, I don't worship Zeus, Zeus doesn't exist, but Zeus is still a God.
This is a non-argument. Atheists do not believe in the existence of gods, that is those that aren't made up or fictional.
Hard to tell if you are trolling or really oblivious to this fact.

Edited by Rlyeh, 05 February 2013 - 07:18 AM.


#259    David Henson

David Henson

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 126 posts
  • Joined:05 Feb 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bible Belt

  • "Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune

Posted 05 February 2013 - 03:14 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 05 February 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

This is a non-argument. Atheists do not believe in the existence of gods, that is those that aren't made up or fictional.

There is no tenet of atheism by definition that makes any such distinction. To say that atheists do not believe in the existence of gods only demonstrates either a desperate limitation of gods by definition or a profound ignorance on the subject.

Posted Image

#260    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 14,047 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • fmerton.blogspot.com

Posted 05 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

View PostDavid Henson, on 05 February 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

There is no tenet of atheism by definition that makes any such distinction. To say that atheists do not believe in the existence of gods only demonstrates either a desperate limitation of gods by definition or a profound ignorance on the subject.
Um, no.  You've got it completely backwards.  If something doesn't exist and one is reasonably sure of this, then it is fair to say one does not believe in its existence.  Anything else would be dishonest.  Since I would go further and say I am overwhelmingly sure of it, there is no way I could say anything else.


#261    Tiggs

Tiggs

    Relax. It's only me.

  • 9,090 posts
  • Joined:30 Jan 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County, California

  • Universe Service Pack 2 still needs patching.

Posted 05 February 2013 - 03:48 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 05 February 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

But don't you see the double standard being applied?

Applied by whom? I don't recall mentioning the crusades.

What I do see is you pretending that the enforced abolition of religious worship by a totalitarian regime is exactly the same as an individual freely coming to the conclusion that there probably isn't a God.

NaNoWriMo 2014 - Posted Image


#262    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 14,047 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • fmerton.blogspot.com

Posted 05 February 2013 - 03:51 PM

I live in an "totalitarian" officially atheist communist state, and there are churches and mosques and temples all over the place.


#263    Tiggs

Tiggs

    Relax. It's only me.

  • 9,090 posts
  • Joined:30 Jan 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County, California

  • Universe Service Pack 2 still needs patching.

Posted 05 February 2013 - 03:52 PM

View PostDavid Henson, on 05 February 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Examples Of God:

1. Does she believe in God?
2. I pray to God that no one was seriously injured in the accident.
3. the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt
4. a myth about the god of war
5. an offering for the gods
6. a professor who was regarded as a kind of god
7. a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix

I can confirm that Hendrix was a guitar god - and I say that as an atheist.

The God that atheist's generally refer to not believing in, however, is the one roughly defined as: The maker of everything which is not God.

NaNoWriMo 2014 - Posted Image


#264    Liquid Gardens

Liquid Gardens

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,624 posts
  • Joined:23 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male

  • "Or is it just remains of vibrations from echoes long ago"

Posted 05 February 2013 - 03:54 PM

View PostTiggs, on 05 February 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

I can confirm that Hendrix was a guitar god - and I say that as an atheist.

Truer words, never spoken.

"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into"
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" - C. Hitchens
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" - Richard Feynman

#265    Tiggs

Tiggs

    Relax. It's only me.

  • 9,090 posts
  • Joined:30 Jan 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County, California

  • Universe Service Pack 2 still needs patching.

Posted 05 February 2013 - 03:54 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 05 February 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

I live in an "totalitarian" officially atheist communist state, and there are churches and mosques and temples all over the place.

Do you have enforced abolition of religious worship?

NaNoWriMo 2014 - Posted Image


#266    David Henson

David Henson

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 126 posts
  • Joined:05 Feb 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bible Belt

  • "Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune

Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:16 PM

View PostTiggs, on 05 February 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

I can confirm that Hendrix was a guitar god - and I say that as an atheist.

The God that atheist's generally refer to not believing in, however, is the one roughly defined as: The maker of everything which is not God.

But that isn't an accurate intepretation of the actual definition of atheism. No god or gods.

Posted Image

#267    Tiggs

Tiggs

    Relax. It's only me.

  • 9,090 posts
  • Joined:30 Jan 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County, California

  • Universe Service Pack 2 still needs patching.

Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:18 PM

View PostDavid Henson, on 05 February 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

But that isn't an accurate intepretation of the actual definition of atheism. No god or gods.

Then feel free to continue railing against things that no-one else believes is true.

NaNoWriMo 2014 - Posted Image


#268    David Henson

David Henson

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 126 posts
  • Joined:05 Feb 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bible Belt

  • "Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune

Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:18 PM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 05 February 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Truer words, never spoken.

I guess I always more preferred Beck or Clapton.

Posted Image

#269    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 14,047 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • fmerton.blogspot.com

Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:23 PM

View PostTiggs, on 05 February 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Do you have enforced abolition of religious worship?
Now what would all those churches and mosques and temples and so on be for if it weren't for religious worship and ritual and all the rest?


#270    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 14,047 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • fmerton.blogspot.com

Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:26 PM

I think in full disclosure I should point out the places where religions are restricted.

They have to stay out of politics.

They cannot proselytize except on their property, but they are free to invite people to come to their property.

They cannot build just anywhere (although it seems as though they are).





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users