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Atheism - any contradictions or 'problems'?


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#46    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:59 PM

View PostCrikey, on 31 January 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

I don't understand!  One minute atheists are telling us that the Bible has been edited, censored and tidied up over the centuries to make it look good, then the next minute they're telling us it's still  full of contradictions!
Wish they make up their minds and tell us once and for all whether it's been prettied up or hasn't it?..

Or it has been edited  and it was a half baked job?

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#47    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:05 PM

View PostCrikey, on 31 January 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Crikey asked- But what possible motive would anybody have for sitting down and "inventing" Jesus and Christianity?



If that's so, why did the early Christians write this?-

"..we do not peddle the word of God for profit"- 2 Cor 2:17
"Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care.. not lording it over those entrusted to you" -1 Peter 5:2-3

They lied.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies

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conviction." - Blaise Pascal

#48    Frank Merton

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 06:10 PM

View PostHavocWing, on 31 January 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

They lied.
I think you are too harsh; the words were probably sincere, but sincerity doesn't really prove much.  A lot of people think or at least say that religions exist to keep people in submission.  To be sure that does sometimes happen, but mostly religions serve very human needs.


#49    White Crane Feather

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:03 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 30 January 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

The only contridiction is an internal one.. sometimes an athiest may break down and feel the urge to pray.. or something may happen that is miraculous, because of thier belief system they may need to ignore it and pretend it didnt happen. When listening to others accounts of god they wont be able to listen unbiasedly because god cannot exist for them..

In its definition there is no contridiction.. but neither would there be in the statement "there is a god."
I agree totally. I was referring to formal logic. You see many ( not all) atheists will argue their buts off about why belief in the spiritual is illogical all the while makeing gross formal logical fallacies. A contradiction if I ever saw one. Not that our thiest friends are any different by the way.

Edited by Seeker79, 31 January 2013 - 07:05 PM.

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#50    Crikey

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:49 PM

View PostHavocWing, on 31 January 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

They [the Bible writers] lied.

Prove it..:)


#51    scowl

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:49 PM

View PostCrikey, on 31 January 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Crikey asked- But what possible motive would anybody have for sitting down and "inventing" Jesus and Christianity?



If that's so, why did the early Christians write this?-

"..we do not peddle the word of God for profit"- 2 Cor 2:17
"Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care.. not lording it over those entrusted to you" -1 Peter 5:2-3

Early Christians were different from most of the Christians we have today.


#52    Crikey

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:58 PM

View PostBeckys_Mom, on 31 January 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Or it has been edited  and it was a half baked job?

Jesus said "Oh God I don't want to die tomorrow, get me out of it if you can". That makes him look weak, so why didn't they edit it out?
And some disciples showed cowardice by abandoning him and running off in fear of the Romans, why wasn't that edited out too?
You see, if somebody allegedly edited the Bible to make it squeaky-clean they'd have made damn sure they edited out the most obvious bits like that first..;)


#53    Crikey

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:01 PM

View Postscowl, on 31 January 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

Early Christians were different from most of the Christians we have today.

I made a disparaging  remark in another thread about most of today's Christians but a mod deleted it in case it upset people, so I'd better not repeat it here..;)


#54    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:08 PM

View PostCrikey, on 31 January 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

Prove it.. :)

What about the popes and all the crusades?  Vatican City has enough wealth to feed the entire world, learned that on the history channel.  Now why don't you prove that what they said is the truth?

2 Thessalonians 2:11
So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious
conviction." - Blaise Pascal

#55    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:27 PM

View PostCrikey, on 31 January 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

Jesus said "Oh God I don't want to die tomorrow, get me out of it if you can". That makes him look weak, so why didn't they edit it out?
And some disciples showed cowardice by abandoning him and running off in fear of the Romans, why wasn't that edited out too?
You see, if somebody allegedly edited the Bible to make it squeaky-clean they'd have made damn sure they edited out the most obvious bits like that first.. ;)

They edited what suits..  Hence why Christianity is split  into so many groups.. They cannot agree with each other.

Edited by Beckys_Mom, 31 January 2013 - 11:27 PM.

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#56    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:55 PM

View PostCrikey, on 31 January 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

Jesus said "Oh God I don't want to die tomorrow, get me out of it if you can". That makes him look weak, so why didn't they edit it out?

Hmmm, or it makes him look human, just like they said he was (and yes, he's God too; don't ask me, I think it's nonsensical also).  I've always thought this and the 'God why have you forsaken me' statement potentially causes problems because I'm not sure in what capacity it's really correct to say that Jesus is really God then, unless he likes talking to himself.

Quote

And some disciples showed cowardice by abandoning him and running off in fear of the Romans, why wasn't that edited out too?

This seems to also be consistent with the general biblical message that none are good enough, none are sinless, you're all a bunch of base, selfish, repulsive. dirty animals who deserve damnation and until you admit that fact to yourself and truly accept in your heart that Jesus/God came down and died so that you can be spared from, well..., Jesus's/God's wrath, you are ultimately doomed and cannot help but to continue to do your wanton evil.

Quote

You see, if somebody allegedly edited the Bible to make it squeaky-clean they'd have made damn sure they edited out the most obvious bits like that first.. ;)

Yea, I'd have started by removing the part concerning the Amalekites; God-commanded genocide is kind of a dealbreaker for me.

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#57    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:58 PM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 31 January 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

Hmmm, or it makes him look human, just like they said he was (and yes, he's God too; don't ask me, I think it's nonsensical also).  I've always thought this and the 'God why have you forsaken me' statement potentially causes problems because I'm not sure in what capacity it's really correct to say that Jesus is really God then, unless he likes talking to himself.

http://bible.cc/john/10-20.htm

2 Thessalonians 2:11
So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious
conviction." - Blaise Pascal

#58    Zaphod222

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 12:29 AM

View PostCrikey, on 31 January 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

I don't understand!  One minute atheists are telling us that the Bible has been edited, censored and tidied up over the centuries to make it look good, then the next minute they're telling us it's still  full of contradictions!
Wish they make up their minds and tell us once and for all whether it's been prettied up or hasn't it?.. ;)

Both statements are true. What is your problem with that?

The idea that the editing of the bible would necessarily lead to a contradiction-free book is entirely your own invention.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

#59    Jinxdom

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:07 AM

View PostZaphod222, on 31 January 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

That is a misrepresentation of atheism. Atheists do not "realize" anything of that sort; they simply do not use phantastical mythical scripts to explain the unknown.

By the way the religionists` claim that their respective gods must exist because everything needs a creator begs to question: So who created their god? ........and back to square zero. Duh.

Some of us figured out that particular non-starter in first grade.


If you believe God doesn't exist and people claim that god created everything it goes against your nothing can create something belief because you believe that God is Nothing.  (Since God to atheists do not exist)

If you believe God does exist and people claim that nothing creates something(case and point the whole creationist debate) it goes against the belief, that same belief of something creating something.

Therefore both sides basically agree that something has to create something. The people who can't come to grips with it usually get angry and upset because they don't know exactly what that unknown something actually is.

I shouldn't of said something created everything because people got confused, I should of said something creating something.

Edited by Jinxdom, 01 February 2013 - 06:18 AM.


#60    Zaphod222

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:22 AM

View PostJinxdom, on 01 February 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

If you believe God doesn't exist and people claim that god created everything it goes against your nothing can create something belief because you believe that God is Nothing.  (Since God to atheists do not exist)

If you believe God does exist and people claim that nothing creates something(case and point the whole creationist debate) it goes against the belief, that same belief of something creating something.

Therefore both sides basically agree that something has to create something. The people who can't come to grips with it usually get angry and upset because they don't know exactly what that unknown something actually is.

I shouldn't of said something created everything because people got confused, I should of said something creating something.

You just repeated your previous post, and added an insult. Here is a hint for you you: Insults are not arguments.

OK, I will phrase it simpler for you:

God is something. Theists believe that for everything there must be a creator. Hence, there must be a creator for god.
Since the religionists do not accept that, their simplistic argument about the creator does not work.

Again;: Some of us figured that one out in first grade. (And later most of us figure out too that repeating the same argument does not make it valid).

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