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Why is being liberal bad?


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#76    Tiggs

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:58 AM

View PostGromdor, on 01 February 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

I would say #4 is Libertarian.

I'd say that #1 and #4 are generally associated with Left and Right Libertarianism, in that order.

Basically, though, everyone with a pulse seems to want to call themselves a Libertarian these days, so even defining what a Libertarian is has become a bit of a bun fight.


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#77    CrimsonKing

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:30 PM

View Postbacca, on 31 January 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

I do know of it and the idea is great, and there are lots of people who do that...there are also people who do that then life happens and they need help....there are always exceptions but many people don't want to need government assistance, I would think by your post that you make enough money that you pay a huge amount in taxes and your ok with everything else that YOUR money goes to right? It's helping to feed people that your bothered with? It's that that you would stop because your granddaddy taught you right? And anyone who falls on hard times should suck it up and get a job? lol your life must be all sunny since you have never needed anyone but yourself...not everyone can say that and it is really arrogant to assume that just because some is ok with people getting food means that they don't take responsibility...do you really think being on welfare is great? if you do go right on ahead and do it, no one is stopping you! Life isn't as right and wrong as all that, maybe in your world where starving people are ok, but for some people reality is not so easy

You are 1 ignorant fool,if you can not properly interpret what i have said then you for one should not have access to the internet.You are not a responsible adult and live on my tax dollars i take it.No my life has not been all great and sunny i have had hard times,but you know what i have always put my big boy pants on and got myself out of my own troubles not taken other peoples money!Its called being a adult!Try it some time ,might make you feel better to do something for yourself rather than freeloading off of others.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#78    bacca

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:59 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 01 February 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

You are 1 ignorant fool,if you can not properly interpret what i have said then you for one should not have access to the internet.You are not a responsible adult and live on my tax dollars i take it.No my life has not been all great and sunny i have had hard times,but you know what i have always put my big boy pants on and got myself out of my own troubles not taken other peoples money!Its called being a adult!Try it some time ,might make you feel better to do something for yourself rather than freeloading off of others.

Feeling superior are we? Do you know anything about me personally? nope didn't think so....The fact that I can appreciate and understand that there are times that people have no choice to ask for help does not mean that I do not take responsibility. How you just spoke, and the manner in which you seem to feel that you know and understand things because of how your life has been is part of the problem. Let me ask during your hard times you didn't need help from anyone right? And you have kids to feed, cloth, and keep warm and safe right? And you needed no one to do this? If the answer is that you needed help then you need to grow up and realize not everyone has family help and not everyone has options available that may have been available to you...It is not freeloading to ask for help so that you can pull yourself back up, you have a very simply view of people and you seem to think that everyone falls into one category. Again lumping everyone into one box is not helping anyone, your rudeness is not helping anyone either...I do not mean to be rude but calling people a fool because you disagree with them is certainly not adding to the dicussion

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#79    CrimsonKing

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:09 PM

View Postbacca, on 01 February 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Feeling superior are we? Do you know anything about me personally? nope didn't think so....The fact that I can appreciate and understand that there are times that people have no choice to ask for help does not mean that I do not take responsibility. How you just spoke, and the manner in which you seem to feel that you know and understand things because of how your life has been is part of the problem. Let me ask during your hard times you didn't need help from anyone right? And you have kids to feed, cloth, and keep warm and safe right? And you needed no one to do this? If the answer is that you needed help then you need to grow up and realize not everyone has family help and not everyone has options available that may have been available to you...It is not freeloading to ask for help so that you can pull yourself back up, you have a very simply view of people and you seem to think that everyone falls into one category. Again lumping everyone into one box is not helping anyone, your rudeness is not helping anyone either...I do not mean to be rude but calling people a fool because you disagree with them is certainly not adding to the dicussion

Was not trying to be a *sshole and did not mean to say you were a fool only if you interpreted what i have said wrong.Some people do need help i understand this,but many in this country now days take advantage of the system and once they get a helping hand they make it a way of life.Yes i may come off as arrogant sometimes but im really not,i just believe some now days can do more than they care to and i for one am completely against the gimme culture our country has started to embrace.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#80    lightly

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:34 PM

Because it can be confused with giving.. and giving is bad.     ..  anyway,  liberal is just  a word, not a species.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#81    Jeremiah65

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:52 PM

It's true that Libertarian has become a new "cool thing to be".  I like to point people to here... when there is a misunderstanding of what "Libertarian" means.

http://www.lp.org/platform

This is the party platform.  This is what I believe is correct and this is why I call myself a "Libertarian".  Sure, you have your Ayn Rand types, but that is not part of the platform.  That is more "philosophy" than politics.  I believe in the philosophy of freedom...which is different than  Ayn Rand's "self love above all others".


Word game

"Liberal"

I like things in Liberal quantities.  When I think of a "Liberal" education, I think "copious amounts"...not artsy fartsy singing and dancing.  "My brain was filled with liberal amounts of scientific knowledge at the University"

"I drank liberal amounts of scotch at the bar last night"

Bah...anyway.

Everyone is entitled to their world views and you are free to call it what you want.  I think we should all strive to be personally responsible...to do the best we can do.  I think the GOV gets in the way of progress more than it facilitates it...and some say the liberal mind is "progressive"...more like..."regressive" to me.

There has to be a balance.  You cannot live in a hole in the ground...you have to be part of society and do things to support that society...but there still has to be room for individual freedom and personal responsibility.  Personal responsibility...it really is a good thing and a solid foundation to any successful civilization.

Just my opinion though...

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

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#82    bacca

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:54 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 01 February 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

Was not trying to be a *sshole and did not mean to say you were a fool only if you interpreted what i have said wrong.Some people do need help i understand this,but many in this country now days take advantage of the system and once they get a helping hand they make it a way of life.Yes i may come off as arrogant sometimes but im really not,i just believe some now days can do more than they care to and i for one am completely against the gimme culture our country has started to embrace.

I agree with you. I think the system needs to be fixed to help those who truly need it, and help them find a way to never need it again. i do not think that it should be endless and I think there needs to be some way to try and find out who is abusing the system and stop them. I don't want to help everyone and for most people government help should be a temporary thing until they find another way. There are always going to be people who try to find a way to get more etc...and I don't like the idea of them either...the people I am talking about those are the ones who really need help. The gimme culture as you put it is a problem, but people just complaining about it (those in a position to change it) are only making the situation worse. They aren't trying to find a way to stop it or fix it, they just want to complain about it...who is that helping?

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#83    F3SS

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:40 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 01 February 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

I subscribe to a web site (Reason) that is supposed to be Libertarian, but I don't get it.  I would not be the one to do it, but maybe some Libertarian out there would start a thread on this.

As far as I am concerned, I see liberty as a nice slogan but in reality unachievable, and its use as a slogan doing more harm than good.  I also think there are other objectives in life that would be more important, such as compassion, equality, harmony, universal dignity, public health and safety, etc.
Oh it's achievable. We've done it. But we're losing it slowly. Liberty must be spoken of meaning never forgotten and it must be defended all the time because if there is something that people in high power wanting more of it hate more than anything it is that liberty gives power to people. One bad thing about liberalism is that it requires so much government. More government means more security by dependence which means less liberty. Ben Franklin said those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

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#84    AsteroidX

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:46 PM

Quote

Liberty
  Liberty was lost with the Civil War. We changed from a Confederacy to a Federal Republic at the end of that war. Which was the end of Liberty as we became dependent on the masters in Washington for our Freedom.

Those that believe the war was about slavery....well I think most people in UM are smart enough to know that it wasnt. The end of slavery was just an outcome of the end of the war.


#85    bacca

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:57 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 01 February 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

Liberty was lost with the Civil War. We changed from a Confederacy to a Federal Republic at the end of that war. Which was the end of Liberty as we became dependent on the masters in Washington for our Freedom.

Those that believe the war was about slavery....well I think most people in UM are smart enough to know that it wasnt. The end of slavery was just an outcome of the end of the war.

The war ended? When did that happen, was it recently? Geez someone should have let people around here know when it ended :no:

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#86    AsteroidX

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:06 PM

Quote

The war ended? When did that happen, was it recently? Geez someone should have let people around here know when it ended :no:

True dat. I live in Oregon. We didnt participate much. The feds came in early and federalized us to Reservation duty because we had Southern leanings. I believe you received some of our guns and those that could make the journey to join other state militias of the south.

Them we finally made our last stand at The Long Tom Rebellion (just a few miles from where I live)

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#87    Michelle

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:17 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 01 February 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

Liberty was lost with the Civil War. We changed from a Confederacy to a Federal Republic at the end of that war. Which was the end of Liberty as we became dependent on the masters in Washington for our Freedom.

Those that believe the war was about slavery....well I think most people in UM are smart enough to know that it wasnt. The end of slavery was just an outcome of the end of the war.

Don't be so sure...


#88    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:30 PM

View PostTiggs, on 01 February 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:



I'd say that #1 and #4 are generally associated with Left and Right Libertarianism, in that order.

Basically, though, everyone with a pulse seems to want to call themselves a Libertarian these days, so even defining what a Libertarian is has become a bit of a bun fight.
Now if everyone who called themselves a libertarian actually voted libertarian, this world would be a better place.



#89    AsteroidX

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:32 PM

For those that might be confused:

Quote

lib·er·tar·i·an  (lPosted ImagebPosted ImagePosted Imager-târPosted ImagePosted Image-Posted Imagen)
n.
1. One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state.
2. One who believes in free will.
[From liberty.]
libPosted Imageer·tarPosted Imagei·an adj.
libPosted Imageer·tarPosted Imagei·an·ism n.



#90    questionmark

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:36 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 01 February 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

Now if everyone who called themselves a libertarian actually voted libertarian, this world would be a better place.

Yes, but first it would be useful to define what libertarian actually means, because as I see it,in US politics it is a very stretchable term, reaching the whole spectrum from the conservative bible thumper to the progressive liberal and passing over the reactionary who wants to return to 1860.

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