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Are Ghosts Real? Science Says No-o-o-o


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Poll: Do you believe ghosts are real? (78 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you believe ghosts are real?

  1. Yes (53 votes [67.95%])

    Percentage of vote: 67.95%

  2. No (25 votes [32.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.05%

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#46    Emma_Acid

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:48 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 04 February 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Energy is I would imagine the most important single concept in physics (maybe time beats it), but I have yet to see a definition that even begins to convey a sense of what it might actually be.

Er, we know exactly what energy is. Energy is the description of a systems ability to perform work.

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#47    _Only

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 04:14 PM

View PostEmma_Acid, on 04 February 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

Well, thats moving the goalposts slightly. At the end of the day, ghosts must be powered by something. They cannot be an extension of "thought energy" as this doesn't exist.

No goal posts have been moved. The idea suggests that "ghosts" are powered by thought/emotion. Hold on right there now. Is "thought energy" in this context a physical force that we can measure and test? No, it's in the mind. Try to understand and imagine here that every thought has its power. It affects things. It affects how we feel, how we think afterwards, what we might do. You know this is true, but say it doesn't have anything to do with ghosts. Well I think I've already said that the idea is that a strong enough thought/emotion can leave an imprint; a "ghost", or left over energy. What if you had the greatest time of your life somewhere, and left a bit of that energy there? What if you got murdered somewhere, and left some of this energy there? What would stick around?

That's what I, and others as far as I see, mean. Now if you want to say this doesn't exist, that's fine. But I'll wait until we can figure out the mind and its seemingly endless nuances of consciousness  to make that verdict. Or we can all say it's fluff and ignore it and measure physical things we can see. But I don't think that would be healthy in the long run.

Quote

"Vigor and power" are linguistic concepts. You can do something vigorously  but this makes no sense if you're trying to explain how the mind lives on after the body. It does it with "vigor"??? That doesn't mean anything.

Yes, emma_acid, it does it with "vigor". That's the idea, at least. If a powerful energy is put out, be it a thought or emotion, if it has enough energy (/vigor/power) it can imprint to a setting or person. You're starting to see what I mean now by energy? Not electricity, not combustion. An intensity someone has put out. Believe that or not, but I'm just trying to get you to understand the distinction. It's not at all a misunderstanding of meaning. I never change any uses of words; you just keep going back to your definition of energy, and trying to use it against mine, saying I am changing it.

I'm not suggesting anything myself. I put up a video about a passing theory of someone about ghosts being an artifact of cyclical time...



...and he mentioned the word energy in passing in it, which someone replied to asking about that energy, which I was then questioned on for some reason.

I'm just attempting to explain the concept now, but it wasn't even the idea I myself intended to originally put forward, which is that these "ghosts" we could be seeing are simply past, present, and future blending at moments.

View PostEmma_Acid, on 04 February 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

Er, we know exactly what energy is. Energy is the description of a systems ability to perform work.

That's physics. Which happens to have the term energy in it, which is where the problems come when talking about a non physical vigor of consciousness, and having to relate it to a physics heavy word. There really isn't a better word I can think of to relate though, yet it seems to make people dig themselves into a hole in your eyes.

Edited by _Only, 04 February 2013 - 04:18 PM.

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#48    Frank Merton

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 04:17 PM

View PostEmma_Acid, on 04 February 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

Er, we know exactly what energy is. Energy is the description of a systems ability to perform work.
Ah, you've had high school physics.


#49    _Only

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 04:26 PM

Imagining that the above theory is true, I don't think "ghosts" even have to be dead at all. "ghosts can just as easily be alive, from the past, or for the future. Potentially even yourself, as talked about around 6 minutes into the video.

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#50    Esoteric Toad

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 04:27 PM

I've always stuck with the idea that what science knows today will be different tomorrow. Even so the idea of ghosts seems confusing. The human population is somewhere around 6.5 billion, we have personal technologies that no one could have dreamed of just 30 years ago and yet with more people and better tech there is still no solid evidence of ghosts (or most of the paranormal things out there). Too many times I have heard of places that are supposed to be so haunted and yet there is never an attempt to quantify that statement. I have a friend that owns (or owned, not sure if he still does) a very well known "haunted house" in Indiana. He knows I am a skeptic and I was talking to him about it. Of course he is/was never going to try and find out what the nature of the haunting is (prosaic versus unknown) since it makes him money. I joke with my wife about these programs that always are investigating haunted bars, restaurants  inns, bed and breakfasts and the like. Nothing like free advertising and drumming up business for people who want to have a bit of fun visiting a haunted public building. The area I live in has a haunted restaurant that is called Ashley's (formerly Gentlemen Jim's). It's on some of the haunted places registries. My brother worked there, nothing to report. I have been there, it is an old railroad station turned into a restaurants...that is all, old building=haunted place. With the BILLIONS and BILLIONS (sorry Carl) of people who have died over the thousands of years we should be swimming in ghosts and there should never be a moment of peace.

The human imagination and all of it's abilities and lack there of make our perceptions less than perfect. That alone should explain most, if not all, sightings.


#51    scowl

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 04:51 PM

View Postgreen_dude777, on 01 February 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

This is just wrong.  http://en.wikipedia....ptics)  Science proved 'rods' don't exist.  I used that example because I imagine ghost believers venture into the cryptid forum.  It also continually proves that there is no great ape in North America, and no monster in Loch Ness.

You have completely misinterpreted what that meant. Science explained what rods actually were -- they're insects and these insects do exist.

This doesn't mean that every time you video something that looks like a rod it absolutely must be an insect.


#52    scowl

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

View Post_Only, on 04 February 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

The idea suggests that "ghosts" are powered by thought/emotion. Hold on right there now. Is "thought energy" in this context a physical force that we can measure and test? No, it's in the mind.

Which means it doesn't physically exist.

Quote

Try to understand and imagine here that every thought has its power. It affects things. It affects how we feel, how we think afterwards, what we might do.

So the "things" it affects are all in our mind again proving that it doesn't physically exist.

Quote

You know this is true, but say it doesn't have anything to do with ghosts. Well I think I've already said that the idea is that a strong enough thought/emotion can leave an imprint; a "ghost", or left over energy. What if you had the greatest time of your life somewhere, and left a bit of that energy there? What if you got murdered somewhere, and left some of this energy there? What would stick around?

Nothing. Simply nothing.

Here's a short lesson on energy. For energy to be stored, it must be contained otherwise it will radiate in all directions and dissipate. Your "mental" energy if it did exist would quickly disappear.

Quote

That's what I, and others as far as I see, mean. Now if you want to say this doesn't exist, that's fine. But I'll wait until we can figure out the mind and its seemingly endless nuances of consciousness  to make that verdict. Or we can all say it's fluff and ignore it and measure physical things we can see. But I don't think that would be healthy in the long run.

You're telling us that it's unhealthy to practice boring science that involves measuring things we can detect and prove. Would that be because you can't measure something that doesn't exist?


#53    Ryu

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:30 PM

View Postali smack, on 02 February 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

just because science says something doesn't exist, doesn't make Science right.Science is arrogant and dismisses anything it can't explain or understand.

Not all the time, as you said. However science is not about to jump on the paranormal bandwagon either. Scientists usually wait until enough information has been gathers before they formulate new hypothesis and extrapolations.

View PostLumpino, on 04 February 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

But, here is a spiritual science too.

Isn't that a sort of oxymoron?


#54    Sweetpumper

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:31 PM

Your mommy and daddy might have told you there are no such things as ghosts.  But nearly half the country thinks otherwise.  A HuffPost/YouGov poll shows that 45 percent of Americans believe in ghosts, or that the spirits of dead people can come back in certain places and situations.

http://www.huffingto..._ref=weird-news

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#55    _Only

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:29 PM

To scowls thing there, yes, I think you are correct that this thing people call ghosts aren'tphysical, and are likely all in the mind. But does that make them any less real? I see your stance, not sure of my own yet, but its definitely leading toward the other direction. But I see that's met with hostility, as if a challenge. Its not, as all would like things understood, making the boring science bit unfounded and silly.

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#56    scowl

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:19 PM

View Post_Only, on 04 February 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

To scowls thing there, yes, I think you are correct that this thing people call ghosts aren'tphysical, and are likely all in the mind. But does that make them any less real?

Yes.


#57    Rafterman

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:42 PM

View PostSweetpumper, on 04 February 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

Your mommy and daddy might have told you there are no such things as ghosts.  But nearly half the country thinks otherwise.  A HuffPost/YouGov poll shows that 45 percent of Americans believe in ghosts, or that the spirits of dead people can come back in certain places and situations.

http://www.huffingto..._ref=weird-news

A large percentage of the country also think Obama is a Muslim.

Just because a lot of people think something doesn't mean it's right.

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#58    _Only

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 03:13 AM

View Postscowl, on 04 February 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

Yes.

Now we wait to learn. I'll put 7 dollars of my own against yours, standing at the opposite viewpoint (that the mind is the only real thing).

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#59    DBunker

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:01 AM

View PostSweetpumper, on 04 February 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

Your mommy and daddy might have told you there are no such things as ghosts.  But nearly half the country thinks otherwise.  A HuffPost/YouGov poll shows that 45 percent of Americans believe in ghosts, or that the spirits of dead people can come back in certain places and situations.

http://www.huffingto..._ref=weird-news

So what!!? :wacko:

The number of people believing in the paranormal has NOTHING to do with it,... Even if EVERYONE believed, it still doesnt make any of it real.

Edited by DBunker, 05 February 2013 - 04:02 AM.

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#60    JesseCuster

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:40 PM

View Post_Only, on 03 February 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

First off, those weren't my theories. The first was Paul Bradford's and the second was from a metaphysics book, But I can define energy for you. Energy = power. Thought energy = Power of thought. Emotional energy = Emotional power. Do these energies have the ability to carry on once a physical body is gone? Maybe.
Energy is emphatically NOT equal to power.  Power has a well defined meaning in science and engineering.

Power is defined as the rate at which work is done or energy is converted from one form to another.  Energy is measure in Joules, power is measured in Watts.  1 Watt = 1 Joule/second.  Saying energy=power is like saying distance=speed.

All you have done is take one word you don't have a good definition for and substituted another word which you haven't defined.

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