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blasphemy of the holy spirit

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#31    Frank Merton

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:48 AM

I think this sort of problem, and the intense fear and guilt it can create, is symptomatic of taking Scripture as infallible rather than only as the writings of inspired and holy and wise men.

We can find interpretations that don't seem so bad, but the most obvious interpretation is really horrific.  So, instead, we should not read it as an isolated infallible pronouncement, but in its context of Jesus' perhaps impatient response to seemingly blind and uncomprehending taunts.


#32    Raptor Witness

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:29 AM

It's a frightening prospect for any Christian, good or bad. Put simply, the Holy Spirit is what manifested itself in Jesus, and the Apostles in the form of miracles. She is the manifestation of God's power, revealed to men.  It is meant for you as a guide to eternal life.

The Pharisees, by saying that Jesus was using Satan's power, and not the Holy Spirit's power is the prime example, because these men knew better. Jesus countered their argument by arguing that a kingdom divided cannot stand.

They knew the real source of the power they were observing, yet the Pharisees rejected it openly.

When the plagues of the two witnesses are observed on earth, and their power is ignored or rejected, will it not be the same?

Edited by Raptor Witness, 04 February 2013 - 09:33 AM.

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#33    eight bits

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:27 AM

PA

Quote

Anyway, the text doesn't say that the "hecklers" to whom Jesus was referring to did commit the sin, he just said be careful to avoid it.

The remark comes immediately after Jesus has stated what the correct imputation of agency is and has contrasted that with the false imputation of agency in the hecklers' speech. That makes it an accusation of blasphemy, on its face. The bridge between Jesus' accusation and Jesus' other remarks about blasphemy is "Therefore I say to you," not "On another matter that I'd like to warn you about, now that we have each publicly accused each other of a death-penalty offense, and while we're waiting for those charges to be resolved."

Quote

But with that said, as noted the usual response is that the sin of blasphemy against the holy spirit is the rejection of God in our life (not just once, but the continual rejection of God right up to the moment of death).  The context of the verse seems to support this interpretation, I was simply offering an alternative view that may not have been mentioned in the thread yet.

There's no support for that interpretation in the actual text, and in my experience it is not "the usual" response, but rather, there are a variety of explanations current. Most of them, like this one, jettison the context of the remarks (although some non-specific allusion to the context, along with a bit of handwaving that it supports the speaker's reading, is fairly typical).

In particular, there is nothing in the text that suggests continuing action rather than a discrete act, speaking against God is specifically described in black letters to be forgiveable according to the Nicene reading (12: 23, whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven... Jesus is God for a Nicene Christian), and there is no mention of death as a time limit or boundary of action in the conversation.

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#34    markdohle

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 01:04 PM

I think it means that in the end, we have are free to choose, it is done with concious intent and clear understanding of what that choice means.  I also believe that all people at some point in their lives will have the "Emmaus experience" like St. Paul did.  Today many Muslims are coming to Christ because he appears to them in dreams and visions, leading them to become believers in him.  This happens to Muslims who know nothing of the Christian path.  What is hell, well all we need to is to think of ourselves being with ourselves, only ourselves for eternity, without the healing and mercy that must come from love, infinite love.  How many refuse, I have no idea and I believe we Christians can be the most arrogant of all in how we damm others my reading a verse from scriptures and then feel good about it.  However, it only shows how deep our inner alienation goes.

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#35    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:52 PM

View PostRaptor Witness, on 04 February 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

It's a frightening prospect for any Christian, good or bad. Put simply, the Holy Spirit is what manifested itself in Jesus, and the Apostles in the form of miracles. She is the manifestation of God's power, revealed to men.  It is meant for you as a guide to eternal life.

The Pharisees, by saying that Jesus was using Satan's power, and not the Holy Spirit's power is the prime example, because these men knew better. Jesus countered their argument by arguing that a kingdom divided cannot stand.

They knew the real source of the power they were observing, yet the Pharisees rejected it openly.

When the plagues of the two witnesses are observed on earth, and their power is ignored or rejected, will it not be the same?

http://www.biblegate...:36&version=NIV

“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” - Blaise Pascal

#36    Astral Hillbilly

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 04:50 PM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 03 February 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

Most of the books, that I've consulted on this confusing and confounding scriptural conundrum, claimed that it's the eternal rejection of repentance and salvation. It's one of the only explanations that makes sense to me. Of course, there are a few interpretations. They seem to be in the minority, though.

That's the way I always understood it. It means to never accept Christ as your savior, and allow the Holy Spirit into your heart. Rejection of the Holy Spirit.


#37    Mr Walker

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:06 PM

It is very simple, as others have alluded to.

All sins are a result of human choice. Original sin is already forgiven via christs sacrifice All other sins are forgiven via a process of asking for forgiveness making restitution and trying not to sin again.

The most important element of this is recognising our sin and asking for forgiveness.

The "unforgivable sin " is unforgivable because we dont ask for forgiveness or recognise the sin. We may not even recognise god. How can we be forgiven something we do not seek forgiveness for, or recognise as wrong, by a god we do not accept exists or recognise.

For most humans the relationship with god is one of faith, generated in the heart and mind. If we accept that god can forgive us, then in our heart and mind we know he can. If we do not accept this then, psychologically, we are incapable of accepting gods forgiveness, and thus cannot "be" forgiven. It is not that god hasn't already forgiven us all, it is that we wont accept the forgiveness and thus it doesnt exist, in practical terms, for us.

Think of forgiveness as a wrapped present, with our name on it, under the christmas tree. All we have to do is see it, accept it and unwrap it, and it is ours. Not see it, not want it, or not unwrap it and take it, and while it remains there, it is not ours.
Or, think of a mother who has killed her child, and the guilt pain and suffering she is experiencing. All of that can be lifted from her, leaving her calm, peaceful, even content, and loved, IF she recognises god's ability to do this, and accepts this gift from god, AND if she is herself genuinely remorseful for her act and WANTS god's forgiveness of her act..

If we could do this then we would no longer be blasphemers of the spirit and would no longer require forgiveness for failing to  accept god and his ability to forgive us..

Any person, no matter how evil their acts, can be forgiven them, IF they ask for forgiveness, sincerely and genuinely, and if god recognises their heart and mind is genuine in this..

Edited by Mr Walker, 04 February 2013 - 10:30 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#38    Copen

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 01:49 AM

Matthew 12: 31-32 "All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men; but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven  him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, neither in the age to come."

As long as there seems to be contradictions one scripture with other scriptures, you will be tossed to and fro like a reed in the wind. God never contradicts Himself.

There is scripture that says, NOTHING - that's NOTHING can separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus, our Lord.

So how are these two reconciled so that there is no contradiction?????????????? Well, look at a case where this happened and see what can be gleamed from it.

Acts 5; 3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land?" To lie to the Holy Spirit is to belittle Him and His power. (BY THE WAY - FIVE IS GOD'S NUMBER IN THE BIBLE FOR DEATH -- CHECK OUT ACTS 5: 5)

If Ananias was saved eternally by the blood of Jesus Christ, then Ananias' blasphemy resulted in his immediate earthly death not his eternal life in heaven. And Jesus said it will be that way in His age and in all the ages to come.

This does not apply to someone who is not a Christian and is blind and dead in trespasses and in sin. A saved child of God has everlasting life. Everlasting life means a spiritual life that begins on earth. To blaspheme the Holy Spirit means they lose everlasting life (life on this earth) but not eternal life in heaven.

Good question Spirit Writer.
God bless us all is my prayer.


#39    Raptor Witness

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:12 AM

The reason this sin is unforgiveable, is because there can be no forgiveness without the intervention of the Holy Spirit, helping us to repent.

The sin is unforgiveable, only so long as we continue to reject the Holy Spirit's assistance, leading us to forgiveness. That's why it's the only unforgiveable sin.

If one of the Pharisees who had accused Jesus of using Satan's power had gone to Him the next day, and simply admitted that what he saw was the power of Heaven, he would have been forgiven immediately.

I would also argue that if any of the Pharisees had really thought it was Satan's power; that man would not be capable of sinning against the Holy Spirit, but Jesus knew what they really believed.

The Holy Spirit has another name, the Spirit of Truth.

Edited by Raptor Witness, 05 February 2013 - 05:34 AM.

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