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Capital Punishment - For or against?


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#166    Yamato

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:30 PM

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"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#167    Mystic Crusader

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 05:29 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 01 March 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

The commandment is, "Thou shalt not kill unlawfully" ie commit murder. The biblical god makes it very clear that society has not only the authority but the obligation to execute certain groups of peole and that killing in war is not murder etc But i dont base my opinion on religion or the bible, only on logic ethics and moralities of my own.

Which apparently are rather lacking.

“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” - Blaise Pascal

#168    Mr Walker

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:18 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 02 March 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

At some point an embryo becomes a human being.  This is a tough one -- it is rank superstition to say that this happens at conception -- that suddenly the cell (its just one cell at this point) has a soul or something.

By the time it is born, has it become a human being yet?  It certainly seems more likely, but, again, there is reason to doubt -- it is clearly not capable of rational thought, or even really of focusing its eyes to be considered sensate, but we can tell it clearly is able to feel pain.  So at minimum at this time it is some sort of animal.

The Buddhist tradition is that during the pregnancy the life spirit of someone who has recently died comes to inhabit (parasitize?) the developing baby, and at that point it becomes a human being.  Of course biologists have never been able to identify any event that might indicate when that happens.  From their point of view, you start out with a bit of flesh and end up with a baby -- in a gradual process where there is no demarcation.  Either view has pretty much the same moral result.

Obviously, to me at least, any abortion is immoral, but some acts are more immoral than others (murder is more immoral than petty thievery).  Early abortion is perhaps a minor offense compared to late-term abortion, in turn a lesser offense compared to something like infanticide.  This is a major flaw in Christian thinking -- that all breaks with the harmony of the universe are equivalently bad -- that all sins are "sin."  Forget about sin: remember that we alter ourselves by what we do, and that offenses harm us -- in Asian terms, bring bad karma -- and in the end we can destroy ourselves, but some things do more harm to us than others.

So I conclude that abortions should be avoided, all else being equal, but it is often the case that all else is not equal.  In fact, this rule applies to all moral issues.
IMO it is neither a religious issue nor does it having anything  to do with sin. It is a philosophical, moral and  ethical issue. Basically humans, by their self aware nature, confer on each other a greater right to life than they do on other creatures. In part this is a selfish product of our individual nature living as separate consciousneses and bodies We see oursleves as special and confer some of that specialness onto others of our kind, but usually reserve a "more special" place for ourselves..

An individual human begins genetically at conception, and in nature if it is viable will inevitably grow into an indpendent separate genetic human being. To interrupt that growth and devolpment requires compelling reaons. For example if the child is badly malformed and will never be able to live indepndently  as a thinking human being, or if its development threatens the life or health of the mother. Thus while i believe abortion should be legal and govt funded, I also  believe that it should be regulated based on logic and ehtics An unborn does have a baisc right to life as do all human beings.

Each case needs to be arbitrated by 'experts" A womans simple desire to end the life of a baby ,is no more ethical than a daughters desire to end the life of her parents because they cause discomfort difficulty or inconvenience in her life An unborn is no differnt genetically to an ninety year old, apart from the eflugence of time. Ps  after three months before birth a child hears and responds to external sounds and can even learn and store some of this in their brain.

Edited by Mr Walker, 04 March 2013 - 11:22 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#169    No Censorship

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:55 AM

I think that the USA should abolish capital punishment. Innocent individuals are killed by the State, and this is the worst kind of injustice. As previous posts note, DNA evidence and false or forced confessions play parts in the argument to end the death penalty, which is rejected by most First World industrialized governments. It also seems too uncivilized for modern times, but I definitely see why other people support it.

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#170    No Censorship

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:58 AM

View PostHavocWing, on 03 March 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

Which apparently are rather lacking.

Perhaps you could explain your comment to Mr. Walker. I'm sure that he would appreciate it.

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#171    IamsSon

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 05:39 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 04 March 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

IMO it is neither a religious issue nor does it having anything  to do with sin. It is a philosophical, moral and  ethical issue. Basically humans, by their self aware nature, confer on each other a greater right to life than they do on other creatures. In part this is a selfish product of our individual nature living as separate consciousneses and bodies We see oursleves as special and confer some of that specialness onto others of our kind, but usually reserve a "more special" place for ourselves..

An individual human begins genetically at conception, and in nature if it is viable will inevitably grow into an indpendent separate genetic human being. To interrupt that growth and devolpment requires compelling reaons. For example if the child is badly malformed and will never be able to live indepndently  as a thinking human being, or if its development threatens the life or health of the mother. Thus while i believe abortion should be legal and govt funded, I also  believe that it should be regulated based on logic and ehtics An unborn does have a baisc right to life as do all human beings.

Each case needs to be arbitrated by 'experts" A womans simple desire to end the life of a baby ,is no more ethical than a daughters desire to end the life of her parents because they cause discomfort difficulty or inconvenience in her life An unborn is no differnt genetically to an ninety year old, apart from the eflugence of time. Ps  after three months before birth a child hears and responds to external sounds and can even learn and store some of this in their brain.
Given your guidelines Hellen Keller would not have been born, maybe even Stephen Hawking would have been aborted.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881




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