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US DEbt Limit Raised


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#31    Zaphod222

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:32 AM

View PostAsteroidX, on 06 February 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

In the USA the holder of the Worlds accepted currency it is propped up by artificial deflation and is nothing more then a ponzi scheme being perpetrated on the greater part of the world. We do not have the gold anymore to back up our currency.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/gold.htm

Err, not quite. It is a ponzi scheme that is also propped up by the world´s biggest military, so kind of a ponzi scheme with aircraft carriers. That counts for a quite a lot, so Obama has still quite a lot of leeway to deficit-spend his way into never-never land, before the scheme collapses. Besides, what other currency are the dollar holder to flee to? Unlimited Keynesian phantasy spending is practised by so many governments today, it is kind of a collective race to the bottom.

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#32    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:33 AM

View PostAsteroidX, on 06 February 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

In the USA the holder of the Worlds accepted currency it is propped up by artificial deflation and is nothing more then a ponzi scheme being perpetrated on the greater part of the world. We do not have the gold anymore to back up our currency.
Even when it was gold it was still a Ponzi scheme.  If you want to have the currency backed up by something, back it up with productive assets (land, factories, schools, etc.).  This is kinda what they do now without making it official.

When a currency collapses (because the people lose confidence in it) we see it in the form of hyper-inflation.  This is typically a mass hysteria type of thing, since there is no reason, no matter how much money the government prints, for people to not use it, any more than there is no reason to not use a yardstick.

The past inflation that Volker had to stop with high interest rates was caused by unions and their demands; they have now been pretty much defanged, so the present Fed is getting away with printing money and throwing it out of airplanes and we still don't have inflation.  One supposes at some time when unemployment gets low enough that a wage-price spiral will begin again, but it will be awhile, and they can deal with it various ways when it comes.  The magic of all this is automation, which is rampant and keeping unemployment up.


#33    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:37 AM

The situation in Vietnam is tightly managed, so one doesn't know exactly what may be developing.  Land and real estate prices are dropping while wages are going up.  The currency has been stable against the dollar now for several months after a devaluation last year of about 5%.  Economic growth seems to have slowed substantially, but the official figures don't reflect this, at least yet (unlike in the past, the official figures are nowadays pretty reliable).  I notice a considerable increase in food prices, especially for imports from Australia.


#34    Jinxdom

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:39 AM

Stability isn't a good thing when everybody is in the red.

Mass hysteria is also a joke. We need people to learn to take consequences for their own actions instead of leaning on other people to make their choices.

The world earned the state that it is in. Just because they listened to people they thought they could trust. Fun Fact, people who want power have a tendency to lie.

Oh Zap is right on that thing. Our money is backed by our Military and people wonder why the US is fighting all around the world. Right now we are the bad guys.

(Really need to spend a tad bit more time editing before posting :P)

The only guarantee in life is that you have to work to get what you need. The rest is built off of trust.

Edited by Jinxdom, 06 February 2013 - 07:49 AM.


#35    CrimsonKing

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:51 AM

View PostJinxdom, on 06 February 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

Stability isn't a good thing when everybody is in the red.

Mass hysteria is also a joke. We need people to learn to take consequences for their own actions instead of leaning on other people to make their choices.

The world earned the state that it is in. Just because they listened to people they thought they could trust. Fun Fact, people who want power have a tendency to lie.

Oh Zap is right on that thing. Our money is backed by our Military and people wonder why the US is fighting all around the world. Right now we are the bad guys.

(Really need to spend a tad bit more time editing before posting :P)

Nail on the head!People need to be responsible for themselves!If you have the right to do almost anything you want to do.......Then know the ups and downs of your decisions and be responsible for your actions!

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#36    AsteroidX

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:03 AM

Quote

Fed is getting away with printing money and throwing it out of airplanes

Let me know next time there doing a drop in my neighborhood please


#37    acidhead

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:09 AM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 06 February 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

I have to agree with Q here and im talking absolute collapse,the one that since tieing the world together will have an impact on all and everything.Food,water,and yes even lead will be worth more than gold to most.Only the ones who still have money will be worrying about gold the vast majority will care less.I am glad i have taken time out of my life to learn to grow food,fish,hunt and take care of myself no matter the situation.Honestly though those are things i just enjoy doing,but when survival is needed and necessary i will be ok to the best of my ability.

There will still exist a medium of exchange when the barter system proves unprofitable.  It's common  sense.

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#38    AsteroidX

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:10 AM

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There will still exist a medium of exchange when the barter system proves unprofitable

Depending who you ask bullets will hold more value then gold in the barter exchange sector.


#39    Jinxdom

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:13 AM

View PostAsteroidX, on 06 February 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

Depending who you ask bullets will hold more value then gold in the barter exchange sector.

God stop speaking hard truths, it's making my skin all tingly. :P


#40    Zaphod222

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:17 AM

View PostAsteroidX, on 06 February 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

Let me know next time there doing a drop in my neighborhood please

No, Bernankes helicopter flies only over banks. Who then lend it to Obama for spending.
So if you want to get some of that, you either own a bank or enroll into some government entitlement program.

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#41    Yamato

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:17 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 06 February 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

When a currency collapses (because the people lose confidence in it) we see it in the form of hyper-inflation.  This is typically a mass hysteria type of thing, since there is no reason, no matter how much money the government prints, for people to not use it, any more than there is no reason to not use a yardstick.
Maybe 100 and even 25 years ago, you'd be right.  But this is a global marketplace now. The reason for your bold statement is - there are alternatives.  It's not that we don't use it, it's that we need to use many times more of it just to get the same trade.   If that isn't worth hysteria, what is?   People understand nominal value so well.  If I steal dollars out of your account, that's a crime and I'll be prosecuted.  But steal the value out of the same number of dollars that you have?   That's being done legally every day right under our noses!   And you think you have no reason not to use that currency?   If you were prudent, you'd evacuate US dollar based assets and find safer alternatives.   Holding dollars is the most pathetic idea for a portfolio on the planet right now, short of the Yen the past few months at least.   I can hold gold, sell it on Ebay for at or above spot price, and then use the proceeds to buy whatever I want at a trade that preserved my value which means I don't get ripped off.

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#42    AsteroidX

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:18 AM

Sorry man. I dont like to pull punches. And I get educated by people way more real then I lay it out. Even hear at UM Im always learning and growing. :tu:

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#43    Zaphod222

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:23 AM

View PostJinxdom, on 06 February 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

It's not about the gold itself. It's about the trust put behind it that matters. It's a material object that we can control. We put more trust in the currency then gold then the value of gold will decrease,

Not really a valid comparison. "Trust" in gold will never disappear; this shiny stuff has served this purpose the world over since mankind discovered it.
That it it is not a helpful barter medium in a true disaster situation is a different question. As I mentioned already, that depends on how catastrophic the situation gets.

If you simply worry about the eventual and inevitable blowback from the runaway expansion of fiat money supply, gold is a safe haven. Except, of course, that there is a good chance your friendly government will confiscate it in that case; they have done it before.

Edited by Zaphod222, 06 February 2013 - 08:24 AM.

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#44    Jinxdom

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:35 AM

You really can't trust a material object in a philosophical sense. The fact that is there is enough. Which is the point. The Gold is a representation of your trust in where you put it. Trust is what gives currency value.

Since trust isn't an object that is in the real world but a bond between two people we need a representation of that trust. If you have nothing to take away you can no longer show you do not trust the currency and have nothing to take away it's purchasing power. Then this craptastic economy system based off of nothing but force happens.

The only way to take back your trust now will be with a bullet because now that is the only thing our system understands. I'd rather do it with gold, it's shiny and less bloody.

Ever hear the phrase my word is as good as gold?
Anybody see a pattern about the things they are took away and are trying to take away?

Edited by Jinxdom, 06 February 2013 - 09:22 AM.


#45    ninjadude

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:43 AM

View Postacidhead, on 06 February 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

A medium of exchange would still be in the best interest of any individual engaging in a post crash market  to avoid the inconveniences of a pure barter system.  

good luck trying to collect that

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