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'Ghost Hunters'Team Captures Footage Of Ghost

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#76    HeathenRoyalty

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:29 PM

It hasn't been used for free. That was a harshness to my see balls. :blink:   But it is pretty funny.


#77    Phenix20

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:13 PM

View PostSkepticalB, on 26 September 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:

Ill agree with you Sammy, trying to discredit something doesn't mean its fake....nope, not at all......*sips water*

Well first off my username is sam_comm and not ''Sammy'' as far as I can see.
Some people may well have a purpose in trying to disprove and discredit paranormal investigators such as TAPS. They simply don't accept the possiblity that there may be legimaticy to it and will do everything they can, putting forward all kind of explanations and accusations that are often not supported. Are they to be considered more seriously then these paranormal investigators which they try to discredit? I am not convinced!

View PostSkepticalB, on 26 September 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:

Unfortunately, actually discrediting them, as has been done.
And, interviews with former members, admitting its fake, and, the presence of all the videos showing the fakes, (which, since you've used youtube videos to back yourself up, I'll have to assume you see Youtube as science's zenith of proof) all come together, to show that this show, with it's Superhero complex havin' hot topic host, is a fake.

And how has it been done may I ask? You put nothing forward to support your claims (exept a glass of water!)
Former members such as Donna Lacroix came foward stating that the show was staged (which we all know it is, many scenes are prearrenged and scripted) she never mentionned that the evidences caught was faked. Plus, later on she retracted some of her words which to be honest doesn't help her credibility.. Accusing of fakery when you actually never saw anything is doubtful. Here is a good article: http://www.masslive....s_the_ghos.html Obviously she was angry because she was in a financial mess, living with her parents and complained of her salary in Ghost Hunters. Same thing with Brian Harnois, saving himself form the ridicule of the frist seasons claiming the show to be staged (we all know it thank you very much!). If that is supposed to be your ''proofs'' of Ghost Hunters being faked and the evidences being manipulated, that is very shallow indeed.

Edited by sam_comm, 30 September 2013 - 07:23 PM.


#78    Skep B

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:44 PM

Depth doesn't matter when its true.

You're ok with the show being staged, but you still don't think its faked?

thats a paradox

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#79    Phenix20

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 11:23 PM

This ''truth'' still remains to be proven. I don't feel any obligation to accept it, especially if I cannot find any conclusive proofs that support it.

Catching evidences of activity and promoting the paranormal to the public has always been the main objective of TAPS but there is a price to do that on national TV. I think any viewer can understand that or else stop watching to show.. NBC/SyFy has their own interests to mind. They're concerned in audiences rates and revenue. If the show is boring a no one watch it, they've to assume the costs. So obviously they'll order the formula of the show, which investigations will be featured on Ghost Hunters ect. Jason and Grant have disagreed with some of their ideas more than once. But the evidences caught with the TAPS materials belong solely to TAPS and syfy and Pilgrim have no claim over it. That has been confirmed and made clear by Jason Hawes on a live show and Grant Wilson in a radio intervew. I don't picture any of them as liar and deceiver but other might and therefore I'll ask them for proofs.

So yeah, I accept that the various roto rooter scenes, case presentations, cell phone calls ect are not spontaneous and therefore staged. However these investigations and researches do occur and are treated seriously. But we as viewers see only fragments of it through the cutting and editing process in a 43 minutes format and many investigations have never been featured for lack of evidendes. All is not good in this show, I found deplorable that in the last seasons, the network choosed to dismiss the cases where nothing is found and focus only on those with at least a shred of evidence. I understand that this is what people want to see, the rating drops might be a factor in this but paranormal investigations does not always lead to findings and that has to be reflected in a Ghost hunting show.

Edited by sam_comm, 04 October 2013 - 11:46 PM.


#80    Skep B

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 12:13 AM

the problem with asking of proof of fakings in soemthing liek this is that they are in control of what is released.

I cant prove it 100 percent, as thats hard to do even with full transparency.

however, everything I've seen of teh show (yes, I'm a fan and will watch it when i see it on...i dunno why)
all can be explained rationally.

as I'm not there with them, and cant do anything to give conclusive evidence I cna only go by ockham's razor.

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#81    Esoteric Toad

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 12:59 AM

View PostAngel1510, on 26 September 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

I agree with you totally.  I have investigated with a few paranormal teams and each one claimed to promote evidence based research.  It all depends on the person actually running the group.  At every meeting I challenged what research and where was the paperwork.  They should have had filing cabinets full of reports.  I tried to get them to monitor things which could be tested. ie, temp, humity, weather conditions.  Controls needed to be set out where this could be done on a regular basis.  When a member of the group claimed the temp had dropped, how can you confirm this without a prior reading? I would keep my own notes and prepare reports after the event but I believed every member of the group should do the same.  These are just basic things which really prove nothing but do give a record of events occurring throughout the evening.  Alas the room of filing cabinets never appeared, although the groups popularity did rise leading to media events and radio shows.  One particular group was involved with the crew of Most Haunted.
I have very large doubts as to whether or not there is anything to the haunting phenomena but imagine IF there were anything to it and only through the obviously flawed 'research' it is simply being ignored. The same type of 'research' is the downfall to ghosts, UFO's and cryptids. When the 'evidence' is presented at best it comes up as 'unknown' and proves nothing except a complete lack of any real science.

At least you were trying. It is too bad that there seems to be no way to systematically research some of the better known sites. I do not mean this as a conspiracy but it seems that many of the supposed haunted locations probably would resist any real research. Nothing brings visitors like the allure of a haunted house. I used to joke with my wife at the alarming number of pubs and bed & breakfasts that claim to be haunted. Hell there is one in my town that I have seen in several 'haunted places' books. Why would they want to cut off that free advertising??


#82    Phenix20

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 06:14 PM

View PostSkepticalB, on 05 October 2013 - 12:13 AM, said:

the problem with asking of proof of fakings in soemthing liek this is that they are in control of what is released.

I cant prove it 100 percent, as thats hard to do even with full transparency.

however, everything I've seen of teh show (yes, I'm a fan and will watch it when i see it on...i dunno why)
all can be explained rationally.

as I'm not there with them, and cant do anything to give conclusive evidence I cna only go by ockham's razor.

I've been myself suspicious of footages that they caught on the show. How can't one be? The skeptical side of me sometimes prevail and it's normal human behavior. But I accept the possibility that these phenomenon may occur and that high tech materials can capture evidences of that. T.A.P.S in Ghost Hunters is roaming the United States in long and large (and the world in Ghost Hunters International) to investigate the most alleged haunted places. I think it very likely, as an open-minded, that they're bound to caught evidences for all to see.

There have been many such thing as frauds in this field over the years but I find that it is oftimes as a last resort, the exitdoor of the most skepticals when science fails to give rational explanations. ''Well there is no scientific explanation so it must be fraud!'' In a courthouse for instance, you've to support your accusations with proofs otherwise one cannot be judged guilty. You're free to mistrust a suspect, after all everyone is entitled to his/her opinions but it will remain claims and theories and has no great value in a justice system..

Edited by sam_comm, 05 October 2013 - 06:27 PM.


#83    Skep B

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:35 PM

Unless there are no defense against those claims, and without the defense you cannot cast a reasonable doubt.

However, science and law are two separate things. Science being objective, and Law needing a majority of some sort.  If there is no scientific explanation, then I would say the science is wrong, or science needs to update to add in they new unexplained object.

That aside, nothing from the show falls into that it can all be explained via editing, post production, or just some clever positioning of another person in the next room tapping on a wall or yelling through the wall.

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#84    HeathenRoyalty

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:09 AM

Has someone brought up the flashlight test as proof of ghosts yet? Cause if they have, they are wrong. Partially closing a circuit within the flashlights causes the metal to expand and contract, which in turn, closes and opens the circuit. Causing the light to come on and off.


#85    Phenix20

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:17 PM

View PostSkepticalB, on 05 October 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

That aside, nothing from the show falls into that it can all be explained via editing, post production, or just some clever positioning of another person in the next room tapping on a wall or yelling through the wall.

It could be explained that way if we assume that cheating and frauds are essential parts of the show and that the purpose of it is to deceive the audience in making them believe in the paranormal. As we have said many times, that has not at all been proven.

So I would say that these ''explanations'' doesn't stand on much, been only theories that has no more values so far as we can see than those we tend to agree with a legetimate paranormal activity. I can very well understand that those who reject even a possibility that a phenomenon falling outside a scientific model may occur would tend to disregard or discredit any claims or evidences of that. As much as I can be skeptical of the paranormal, I can be skeptical of those who use a form of nihilism with regard to these phenomenon.

Edited by sam_comm, 07 October 2013 - 04:25 PM.


#86    Skep B

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:25 AM

I offer rationalizations of supposed paranormal happenings.  This show claims to show paranormal happenings.  Until they offer full transparency and prove nothing they're doing is fraudulent, then Ockham's Razor puts us at the most likely answer being that they are misleading their audience to make the audience believe in the paranormal, because the audience believing in the paranormal allows for better ratings, and more work for them.

The explanations stand on rational logic as an answer to what could cause these things to happen.

I don't use a form of nihilism, I use science

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#87    Phenix20

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 08:17 PM

View PostSkepticalB, on 08 October 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

Until they offer full transparency and prove nothing they're doing is fraudulent, then Ockham's Razor puts us at the most likely answer being that they are misleading their audience to make the audience believe in the paranormal, because the audience believing in the paranormal allows for better ratings, and more work for them.

As far as I know, they're transparent. What makes you think that they're not? They've done Live Events on TV and with the public, attended various conventions and conferences. They are involved and make themselves available. If that is not transparency I wonder what it is. Did you know that there is several T.AP.S groups in the United States that investiguate the paranormal? They're well out of camera shot and that is why we don't criticise them.

Acutally it's not for them to ''prove'' nothing they're doing is fraudulent. You don't have to prove that you're not guilty if you know that you are not. That is for those who make the accusations to demonstrate it. So far there is nothing conclusive. They are out there in various locations, make researches, investigate and try to capture evidences. They propose it for the public to see and debate. I don't see any secrecy in the process.

And more work for them..

I know that the Occam's Razor proceed by the simplest theories but...

Not that anyone doesn't like a paycheck especially a Syfy one to pay the bill and more but T.A.P.S was founded in 1990 by Jason Hawes and Grant Wilson the investigations stated 20 years ago, even before the syfy network was founded...
Steve Gonsalves investigated as a teenagers up to adulthood and was visiting home in Worcester at the age of 20 before starting his own group New England Paranormal.

These guys are passionate about the paranormal, that's what I can conclude. So while it is true that they are paid generously like TV stars, thanks to a successful show, they've build a serious organisation way before the show was created that will live on way after the show will be ended.

Edited by sam_comm, 08 October 2013 - 09:01 PM.


#88    Brian Topp

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:45 AM

http://www.reddit.co...ernational_now/

On reddit, they did a Ask Me Any thing, A person asked.

Quote

Was there anything on the show that was outright faked, or at the very least played up for the cameras? What are you thoughts about Grant's collar pull from the live Halloween show a few years back?  

The reply

Quote

Everything I did with the show was legit. Was never aware of anything faked at all. Things are absolutely played up in editing, but necessarily so I think. What's exciting in person isn't usually too exciting on tv, so they push multiple experiences together to make it look like a lot, or on the reality end, they edit down conversations to be more dramatic, etc.
As for Collargate.. I've got my concerns, yeah. I think on both counts it's important for fans/non-fans/serious investigators to remember it's TV entertainment and to treat it as such. But also, that there really is something out there.


that says it all

Edited by Brian Topp, 09 October 2013 - 01:47 AM.

It is easier to claim it is paranormal than taking the hard route and find out what really happened.


#89    Skep B

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 02:52 AM

View Postsam_comm, on 08 October 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

As far as I know, they're transparent. What makes you think that they're not? They've done Live Events on TV and with the public, attended various conventions and conferences. They are involved and make themselves available. If that is not transparency I wonder what it is. Did you know that there is several T.AP.S groups in the United States that investiguate the paranormal? They're well out of camera shot and that is why we don't criticise them.

Acutally it's not for them to ''prove'' nothing they're doing is fraudulent. You don't have to prove that you're not guilty if you know that you are not. That is for those who make the accusations to demonstrate it. So far there is nothing conclusive. They are out there in various locations, make researches, investigate and try to capture evidences. They propose it for the public to see and debate. I don't see any secrecy in the process.

And more work for them..

I know that the Occam's Razor proceed by the simplest theories but...

Not that anyone doesn't like a paycheck especially a Syfy one to pay the bill and more but T.A.P.S was founded in 1990 by Jason Hawes and Grant Wilson the investigations stated 20 years ago, even before the syfy network was founded...
Steve Gonsalves investigated as a teenagers up to adulthood and was visiting home in Worcester at the age of 20 before starting his own group New England Paranormal.

These guys are passionate about the paranormal, that's what I can conclude. So while it is true that they are paid generously like TV stars, thanks to a successful show, they've build a serious organisation way before the show was created that will live on way after the show will be ended.


What makes me think they aren't transparent is their editing, they'll cut to some dark spooky corner, hear a knock that may or may not be post production, and proclaim ghost.  There's too many places where they could stage things for me to give them the benefit of the doubt.

If they want to be seen as real, then they should go out of their way to prove they aren' t fakes.  Some knocks, mumbles on a tape recorder, and temperature changes on an infrared camera that may or may not be post production editing doesn't convince me that any of their stuff is real.

And as for their enthusiasm for the paranormal...that is my primary point of contention.

They go out hoping to see ghosts, they don't go out looking to find the truth.

As for the pay thing, they have been paid to go around and walk around old houses and interpret noises to be ghosts.  The people who hire them believe in the supernatural, therefore they know going in, that no matter how shaky the evidence, as long as it comes back "yup ya gotta ghost" the client will be happy.

It's a good hustle.  Hell, I've recently joined a paranormal investigation group, so its my hustle too.

But that's all it ever is, a good hustle.

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#90    Angel1510

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:26 AM

View PostSkepticalB, on 09 October 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

Hell, I've recently joined a paranormal investigation group, so its my hustle too.

But that's all it ever is, a good hustle.

If you have joined a good reputable group, it will not be a hustle at all.  What would be the point of wasting time fooling yourselves?





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