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Do you accept the reality of AGW ?


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Poll: Do you accept the science of anthropogenic climate change ? (50 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you accept the science of anthropogenic climate change ?

  1. Yes (31 votes [60.78%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 60.78%

  2. No (20 votes [39.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 39.22%

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#91    Doug1o29

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:36 PM

View Postonereaderone, on 25 February 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

there  is  climet  change ,
Just what do you think global warming is, if not climate change?

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and  hows  that  global  warming  working  for  you  in  kansas...
Wichita, Kansas is on the extreme edge of the climate region that I study.  Wichita's all-time coldest temperature was on January 29, 1886 when the temperature reached -42 degrees F.  If the climate was not warming, we should have seen another such low temperature in the 127 winters since then.  But climate is really about averages, not extremes.  Wichita's average daily temperature has climbed about one-half degree F since 1980.  And that's how it's working in Wichita in the Great State of Kansas.

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  funny  how  oil  in  the  gulf  of  mexico
pushed  agro  business ,  and  based  on  what  "the  predictions " of  what  happens  when  you  push  up  carbondioxide will  tell  you....   their   heat  wavy  should  be  a  record  setter...
I don't understand your reasoning here.  Mind explaining how you came to that conclusion?

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this  whole  eco-screamer has  nothing  at  all  to  do  with  records   or  common  sense ...   it  is  not  a debate  or  a argument...
it  is  not  even political . eco freaks  shake  down  industrys  for  payola ,  with  no  intrest  in  saving  animals ,  and  use  good natured ,   world  of  disney ,  bambi lovers   as  the  wittless  dupes to  threaten  industrys .
I have three file drawers containing the complete modern weather history of Arkansas.  If you want to know the low temperature on February 26, 1904 in Dallas, Arkansas, or some other podunk town on some other day, the odds are real good I can find it for you.  The Weather Bureau has stations behind every country store and hay bail across the country.  It's all about records.

But I do see your point that some of the political organizations have been less than honest.  And that doesn't help the cause.  It does no good to accurately predict a disaster if people don't believe you.  "I told you so," is an admission of failure.

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global  warming  is  a way  to  tax  air ...   its  just  one  more  way  to  collect  tax's  for  a larger  more  controlling  goverment ...
just  like  UFO's ,  it  does  not  matter  one  tiny  bit  what  the  truth  is...  directors  of  agencys ,  and  govermental  officals who  were  never  eleted  will  say  what  the  truth  is...  
all  based  on  what  is  in  the  best  intrest  of  the  greatest  number .
I disagree with the current campaign in the US to put a carbon tax on polluters.  There are simply too many ways to slip through the cracks and the polluters are going to find them.  A better idea is a carbon fee that is levied at the well-head, mine mouth or port-of-entry.  All fossil-carbon products would have to pay it.  The money would then be returned to the citizenry and divided EQUALLY to offset costs.  The fees would start low and be gradually raised.  The free market would then do the regulating as each person made his/her purchasing choices.

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the  simple  truth  is...   crops  make  global  warming ,  not  engine exsaust...  and  the  crops  are  makeing  cooling, not  warming ...  and   air  polution  is  a local  problem  that  oceans  fix  as  long  as  people  do not  get  in  the  way ....
You and Ronald Reagan...  "Trees cause global warming."

There are soil treatments that sequester carbon and can be applied during tillage.  I don't know where the research on this stands at the moment, but in the US, with our subsidized cropping, we could have this in nationwide application in just two to three years.  The government is the slow part of the operation.

Anything the releases carbon to the atmosphere is a contributor to global warming, whether that's a car, a power plant or a farm tractor.  Makes no difference.

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and as  for  the  eco freaks ...   the  really  bad  news is...  the  science   of  exstinction  has  been  totaly  under  reported ,  and  with  in  only  100  years  all  the  large  preditors  will  live  in  zoo's ,  with  in  200  years  no  large  wild  animals  will  remain out  side  captive  reserves ...   and  insects  are  falling in  to  exstinction so  fast  ,  any  number  you  hear  is  likely  way  to  small .

if  the  force function  of  current  trends   continues  as  it  is  with  out  change...   this  genaration  will  see  the  near  exstinction of  all  but  the  hardyest  of all wild  creatures ,  and  the  domestic animal  take  over  of  all  lands .

you  may  in  this  life  time see  ...  all  animals on  earth  domesticated...  or   eraticated.
Extinction is one of the ecology problems we face and by no means the only one.

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but  by  that time ,  the  eco-freak  lobby  will  be  on  mars ...  eco screaming  about  earth  life  contamination  of  the  pristine  marsian  eco system ,  and  what  we  must  do  to  save  the  microbial  life ....
(  meaning  ,  they  want  money  from any  one  that  goes  to  the  astroid  belt  or  to  mars )
Climate science is pretty solid.  Don't mistake the political noise, the ecofreaks, for the science.

But there is one good thing to be said about the ecopoliticians:  without them, nothing at all would be happening.  We need them to get the science into application.  We just hope that they manage to apply the right things to the right places at the right times.
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#92    Br Cornelius

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:40 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 27 February 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

please direct me to the evidence.
I did - it took five years - but you still ignored it.

Come on Little Fish shows the clean coal.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#93    Little Fish

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:50 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 27 February 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

I did - it took five years - but you still ignored it.

Come on Little Fish shows the clean coal.

Br Cornelius
a hypothesis is not evidence.

even doug could not do it.

Edited by Little Fish, 27 February 2013 - 07:52 PM.


#94    Doug1o29

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:59 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 27 February 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

a hypothesis is not evidence.

even doug could not do it.
I'm not quite sure what you are referring to, but if it is human causes of global warming, I have told you many times to check studies of the earth's carbon budget.  Isotopic studies further support the conclusions.  That you have not done this says more about your willingness to do some reading than it does about me or the availability of
Doug

Edited by Doug1o29, 27 February 2013 - 08:06 PM.

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#95    Little Fish

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:11 PM

see what i mean, doug can't do it.
appealing to the ether doesn't cut it.


#96    Br Cornelius

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:30 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 27 February 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

see what i mean, doug can't do it.
appealing to the ether doesn't cut it.
The closed mind can never be persuaded with real evidence (as you have abundantly shown on multiple subjects) so, no Little Fish - nothing I could tell you would convince you of anything.

No matter how many times you have been shown to be totally and utterly wrong on an individual fact - you never admit it or change your position.

You are the archetypal denialist.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#97    Little Fish

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:35 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 27 February 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

The closed mind can never be persuaded with real evidence (as you have abundantly shown on multiple subjects) so, no Little Fish - nothing I could tell you would convince you of anything.

No matter how many times you have been shown to be totally and utterly wrong on an individual fact - you never admit it or change your position.

You are the archetypal denialist.

Br Cornelius
a subjective psychological profile of an internet poster is not evidence of dangerous human caused climate change, it is evidence that you have no evidence though.


#98    Br Cornelius

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:37 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 27 February 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

a subjective psychological profile of an internet poster is not evidence of dangerous human caused climate change, it is evidence that you have no evidence though.
The fact that you are not open to persuasion says nothing about the evidence and everything about your psychology.
All I hope is that the lies you buy into can be shown to be such for others with less closed minds.

You can take a Donkey to the trough, but you can't make him drink :tu:

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 27 February 2013 - 08:39 PM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#99    Little Fish

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:56 PM

are you going to show the evidence, or just continue bloviating from the balcony to your fellow cultists?


#100    Doug1o29

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:21 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 27 February 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

see what i mean, doug can't do it.
appealing to the ether doesn't cut it.
If I can't appeal to the ether, how am I going to explain that non-sequitor at the end?  Apparently, the UM computer doesn't like me.

Digging up all the currently-available evidence on any scientific topic, especially one as extensive as human causes of global warming, is a time-consuming process and very likely, by the time you get it done, the science has moved on.  A careful and detailed literature search would easily be the equivalent of a research paper.  Research papers build your career; replies to insults on know-nothing websites do not.  That's why you are not getting your evidence.  Providing it is a helluva lot of work.  That being the case, if you want it, you will have to quit being so d-----d lazy and do the work yourself.  If you don't want it bad enough to find it, why should anybody else care about getting it for you?

A year ago I made some rash statements about finding the info you're looking for.  I thought I would have some time.  Those papers I thought would be done by now still have a long way to go.  It will be a long time before I get around to looking it up, if I ever do.
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#101    Br Cornelius

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:32 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 27 February 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

are you going to show the evidence, or just continue bloviating from the balcony to your fellow cultists?
Can i suggest you review all of the threads we have participated in over the last five years with an open mind.
Can i suggest that you take a note of the number of times you have been shown to be factually incorrect and then how many times you acknowledged your mistake.
Do the same for me and Doug.

Stonewalling and denying that these points have all been discussed before, at length, discourages me from spending any time showing you anything. I will restrict myself to correcting you when you make an obvious factual error so that others might learn.

Anything else is a waste of time and I hate going over the same things again and again for someone who will not accept scientific papers as evidence of facts.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 27 February 2013 - 09:33 PM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#102    Br Cornelius

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:38 PM

The psychology of a person who would make a statement of fact and then refuse to support it with evidence interests me. it suggests a lack of confidence in t6he basic facts.
How about that clean coal thing/

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#103    Little Fish

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:47 PM

what more proof does anyone need that there is no empirical evidence that man has any significant effect on climate than to read the last few pages here.


#104    Br Cornelius

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:01 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 27 February 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

what more proof does anyone need that there is no empirical evidence that man has any significant effect on climate than to read the last few pages here.

Because we are bored with you games Little Fish you conclude that climate change isn't real :w00t:

What have you been wrong about over the last 5 years ? Do you want me to list some relevant examples ?

Can we start by asking you a few questions.

Do you accept that CO2 is a greenhouse gas ?

Do you accept that mean surface temperatures have risen over the last 100years ?

Do you accept that there is a net energy imbalance at the top of the atmosphere ?

Do you accept that the total heat content of the planetary system has risen over the last 100years ?

Do you accept that man has contributed to a rise in CO2 through fossil fuel emissions ?

Do you accept that a portion of the global rise in surface temperature and energy content can be attributed to mans activities ?

Do you accept that the surface temperature record over North America is an accurate reflection of the real rise in surface temperature and if not why ?

Do you accept that the summer arctic sea ice extent has shown a downward trend for over a hundred years, and that the arctic glacial ice is at its lowest point for at least a 1000years ?

Do you accept that in local regions there has been an upward trend in extreme precipitation events and droughts ?

Each one of these points builds to an understanding of climate change and it is important to understand that there is no simple single piece of evidence which proves AGW.

Some unrelated questions:

Do you accept that a countries population can continue to rise for decades after its fertility rate drops below replacement ?

Do you accept that Dr Wakefield had insufficient evidence to link the MMR vaccine to autism when he announced such a link in his famous press conference ?

Do you think that vaccines have contributed to an increase in world population or a decrease ?



Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 27 February 2013 - 10:27 PM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#105    Little Fish

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:54 PM

funny, I could swear i was looking for answers and not questions.

furthermore, questioning a questioner is a trait of dogmatism.





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