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Jodi Arias Trial


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#436    ouija ouija

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:24 PM

View PostLeftcoastgal, on 13 March 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Pardon me, may I jump in here with a question?  I keep reading this statement about the photo you reference above, saying this was a photo of him alive, but you can't see his head nor any blood.  If you can't see his head, why/how do you assume he's not already been shot in the head, with the bullet not exiting but lodging in his right cheek I believe it was.  Are you sure the angle of his head, that you can't see, is not actually one that would not lend visibility to the head injury?  Entered at temple (right or left?) and no exit.  I'm wondering how much blood there would be... a .25,  very small caliber yea... in a running shower to boot, so blood washing away as it appears....  I am stuck on his having HAD to be shot first to stun/disable him.  She, stunned herself that she shot him in head and only injured him,  goes into hyper drive and holy crap, it got crazy then apparently.

Help me out with this idea that photo of him in sitting position, (which looks odd as for his 'pose' and slumped, like injured to me), is considered pre-attack or pre-injury? .Anyone?  I must be missing some clue or evidence the rest of you are aware of.  Thanks.  Leftcoastgal
I agree with you totally on this.

View Postdocyabut2, on 13 March 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Not sure what photo was last, some say the one standing in the shower, some say the sitting one. Can`t really go by the net, one would have to review the trial over to get it right. but if he was shot already in the sitting one, I`m sure there would have been some trickle of blood.
Sorry, I 'multiquoted' you and then forgot what I wanted to say :hmm: :blush: !

View Postregi, on 13 March 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

I wonder if by the time Alexander was in the shower, if he wasn't under the impression that Arias had already left.
But wouldn't there be a flash each time she took a photo? Wouldn't he notice that?

View Postdocyabut2, on 13 March 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:


Again, I can't remember why I 'multiquoted' :blush:

View Postdocyabut2, on 13 March 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

Ok guys, the comentator on HLN just said unfortunately they did`nt not have a blood expert at the scene, so I going to try a new scenario. I believe  blood from a gun shot blast  speckles the blood, where as blood  from a stabb wound would be more of a drip. The photo at the sink, it appears to me travis may had his head down at the  lelf side of the sink when he was shot. The stabbings were the drips. What do you think if you were a blood expert?  



Posted Image
I don't think gunshots are the only cause of 'speckling', I think it can also be caused by someone with an internal injury(lungs especially), wheezing. Or maybe blood being forced out of very small narrow wound with great force.

Edited by ouija ouija, 13 March 2013 - 07:26 PM.

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#437    docyabut2

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:47 PM

As the proscuter  just said Jodi`s scenario  could not be possiable in only sixty two seconds in the photos. Could it be possiable that Travis stepped out of the shower  over to the sink where his head was  bent down to get something off the lelf side of the sink, when Jodi then shot the right side of his head and then pick up the knife lying on the sink and starting to stab him and continune to stab him as he struggle down the hall,dragging him back as that photo shows his neck already slash?  That may have taken sixty two seconds.


#438    docyabut2

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:51 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 13 March 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

I agree with you totally on this.

Sorry, I 'multiquoted' you and then forgot what I wanted to say :hmm: :blush: !


But wouldn't there be a flash each time she took a photo? Wouldn't he notice that?

Again, I can't remember why I 'multiquoted' :blush:

I don't think gunshots are the only cause of 'speckling', I think it can also be caused by someone with an internal injury(lungs especially), wheezing. Or maybe blood being forced out of very small narrow wound with great force.

Possiable

They should have bought the blood experts in ,I wonder what they would say even just by looking at  the photos.


#439    ouija ouija

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 09:39 PM

I wonder sometimes about the cut to the throat: it was very deep and I wonder if Jodi(even with the strength of frenzy), could inflict such a wound unless Travis was dead and lying on his back on the floor?

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#440    Leftcoastgal

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:23 PM

View Postmissterri, on 13 March 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

Guilty of premeditated murder BEYOND a reasonable doubt?? I dont see that at all, YET. There is still alot left in this trial.

Now they are saying he had a battery charge at one time in the past.... we shall see if that comes to fruition or fizzles out....It seems most folks feel she will be charged with 2nd degree.. most likely, dont you think?. Cant wait for more tommorrow.. it is very interesting to see how things develop!  Im hooked:)

Hi missterri - I suspect it will be something less than a death penalty case myself.  Whether it comes down from Murder one to M-two is a good question. Right  now I think she'll be doing well if the death penalty comes off the table. Defense has a big job ahead of them.  I do think she traveled to AZ with intent to do him harm.  Mayhem & murder or what ... scare him back into a relationship??   I've never  seen a defendant do themselves so much damage with their behavior on the stand.  Her ego seems to have a bigger stake in this than her life at this point.  I guess they can't tone her down, she's pretty convinced of her... what...? her ability to outsmart everyone?  She's stubborn.  It took her HOW long to admit she did the deed regardless of the why of it.  It is intriguing though... got to admit to that.


#441    Leftcoastgal

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:48 PM

View Postmissterri, on 13 March 2013 - 04:57 AM, said:

Im not sure but I think the time stamp on that of him sitting  is before the one where he is very much alive, facing the camera. THAT one of him facing the camera was the last one of him before the one of her dragging him.. at least that is what I have thot... ??

View Postdocyabut2, on 13 March 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Not sure what photo was last, some say the one standing in the shower, some say the sitting one. Can`t really go by the net, one would have to review the trial over to get it right. but if he was shot already in the sitting one, I`m sure there would have been some trickle of blood.

Hi there folks... & thx for replies. I'm sure I'm confusing the sequence of the photos, they're difficult for me to look at for long. Again though if his face isn't turned to camera, what blood would be visible?  It's a morbid discussion point, apologies.  I just can't accept that the gun shot didn't come first, or has Jodi fully recalled when he was shot?  I really should get fully caught up and not drag you all back to things that have been established.  Let me do some more reading and get back to the discussion.    Thanks.


#442    Leftcoastgal

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:32 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 13 March 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

... where as blood  from a stabb wound would be more of a drip. The stabbings were the drips.

What  about at the point of impact with stabbling, aren't there spurts and spray, attributabe to blood pressure and the wet weapon coming out of the wound as well (sorry for that)?  Do you think the small caliber of the bullet and that it didn't exit, leaving a small entry hole at the temple which would be also be dripping wound and not a gushing one, yes, could even have produced blood in his mouth, nose, dripping  too?

I have often wondered if he was held at gunpoint while the photos of him in the shower were taken.  He doesn't appear to be enjoying the photo session in any case, i.e not a playful sexual time between them.  And that last one with him full faced, it's such an odd expression, perhaps   "OK, I did what you want, now what... leave?"  look, hoping she won't shoot him...?


#443    docyabut2

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 12:05 AM

View PostLeftcoastgal, on 13 March 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

What  about at the point of impact with stabbling, aren't there spurts and spray, attributabe to blood pressure and the wet weapon coming out of the wound as well (sorry for that)?  Do you think the small caliber of the bullet and that it didn't exit, leaving a small entry hole at the temple which would be also be dripping wound and not a gushing one, yes, could even have produced blood in his mouth, nose, dripping  too?

I have often wondered if he was held at gunpoint while the photos of him in the shower were taken.  He doesn't appear to be enjoying the photo session in any case, i.e not a playful sexual time between them.  And that last one with him full faced, it's such an odd expression, perhaps   "OK, I did what you want, now what... leave?"  look, hoping she won't shoot him...?


Here some data on blood spatter.

This type of spatter is usually seen in blunt force, stabbings.

The closer to the target that the gun is fired...the great the spatter.

If Jodi put the gun right  to his head and shot him in the temple,  it would be like the spatter on the sink.The gun  shot  bulllet was in his right eye brow and lodged in his lelf cheek.

http://www.crimescen...ood_Stains.html

Edited by docyabut2, 14 March 2013 - 12:37 AM.


#444    docyabut2

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 12:34 AM

I am so sorry for going on, but I do  feel impelled to figure out how poor Travis was killed. We know Jodi killed him, but her story of how just does not add up.


#445    Leftcoastgal

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:11 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 14 March 2013 - 12:34 AM, said:

I am so sorry for going on, but I do  feel impelled to figure out how poor Travis was killed. We know Jodi killed him, but her story of how just does not add up.

(sigh...) No worries docyabut2 - I appreciate the correct information.  I know peoples feelings are charged over this trial and all that it entails.  My not being clear about some of the established facts was bound to frustrate someone somewhere along the line.  Again friend... no worries.

Oh Oh Oh...  I remain frustrated that official reports don't support the gun shot wound came before the knife wounds.  Could ME be wrong?  a slight-framed woman, 120#'s would attack a grown man 200#'s with a knife alone, expect to be successful in subduing him, and yet find she had to use a gun as a back up to her knife plan...  no, no, no. She either came to kill or is truly so nuts over him she came to threaten him with a knife to save their relationship and things went bad, leaving us with 2nd degree or manslaughter... yes? No death penalty.

Either way, that's alot of confidence for a lightweight...man or woman   I'm her size, I'd never assume to overpower a grown man with a hand held knife and be successful in either injuring him sufficiently to ensure my safety from his rage but secure my dominance over him from that point forward, or killing him.

thanks for your patience with me.  I'm clearly struggling with case details.  At this point though, after today in court, I think she's a wash.  G'night now.  I'm grateful for not getting beat up over my statments and opinions. Just 2 get this off my chest, like the rest of you.  Again... thx

Edited by Leftcoastgal, 14 March 2013 - 06:52 AM.


#446    Yamato

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:16 AM

The spatter on the left side of the sink looks like it was caused by someone slicing the left side of his throat while he was standing in front of the mirror.  

A stab wound into his heart/aorta would also create spatter which is the third source of spatter I don't think anyone has mentioned yet.  It's dubious to believe that this little girl overpowered Travis Alexander and killed him single-handedly, therefore the prosecution must be able to stop relying on a spider web of lies from a liar to get a conviction and find something in the forensics that make their accusations plausible.

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#447    docyabut2

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 09:15 AM

View PostYamato, on 14 March 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

The spatter on the left side of the sink looks like it was caused by someone slicing the left side of his throat while he was standing in front of the mirror.  

A stab wound into his heart/aorta would also create spatter which is the third source of spatter I don't think anyone has mentioned yet.  It's dubious to believe that this little girl overpowered Travis Alexander and killed him single-handedly, therefore the prosecution must be able to stop relying on a spider web of lies from a liar to get a conviction and find something in the forensics that make their accusations plausible.

Correct me if I `m wrong, but doen`nt the blood from a blunt stabbed wound in the diagram looks more like a pointy spray then a speckle thats from a gun shot wound  and as it says the closer the gun is shot into the body the larger the speckle, which is on the back of the sink. Also as I mention in another post there no blood spray or speckles on the walls , base broads or doors  at the end of the hall way, where they say that the throat might have been cut.It kinda looks to me the shot and the stabbings all happen in the bathroom and travis struggled down the hall where he fell and just laid.

http://www.crimescen...ood_Stains.html

Edited by docyabut2, 14 March 2013 - 09:34 AM.


#448    Yamato

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:52 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 14 March 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Correct me if I `m wrong, but doen`nt the blood from a blunt stabbed wound in the diagram looks more like a pointy spray then a speckle thats from a gun shot wound  and as it says the closer the gun is shot into the body the larger the speckle, which is on the back of the sink. Also as I mention in another post there no blood spray or speckles on the walls , base broads or doors  at the end of the hall way, where they say that the throat might have been cut.It kinda looks to me the shot and the stabbings all happen in the bathroom and travis struggled down the hall where he fell and just laid.

http://www.crimescen...ood_Stains.html
Like the link says, spatter is caused by bleeding under force.  A severed neck, stabbed chest, or getting shot in the head are the three established possibilities.  It doesn't seem plausible that the shot in the head produced spatter in the location in front of the sink based on the angle and location of the bullet wound.   A stabbed heart or aorta produces massive amounts of bleeding under force.  It flows out like a garden hose but would still produce spatter.  There isn't enough blood in this location for me to think that a stab wound occurred in the chest where the heart was penetrated.   I'm not 100% sure Alexander was stabbed in the chest puncturing the heart or aorta.  Was he?

In order for the prosecution's case to be plausible to me, and thus capable of conviction beyond a reasonable doubt, she would have to disable him from the very beginning.  The blood evidence looks to me like his throat was slit at the sink.

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#449    docyabut2

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:04 AM

Hey guys they did have a some what blood expert that I missed. What do you think,  she did say the spatter on the sink could have been from a gun shot. She really not sure of  anything.




#!

Edited by docyabut2, 14 March 2013 - 11:07 AM.


#450    regi

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:20 AM

View Postouija ouija, on 13 March 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

But wouldn't there be a flash each time she took a photo? Wouldn't he notice that?


I'm not suggesting when the photos were actually taken.
In the rest of my post, I pointed out that Alexander's camera bag was pictured on the floor in the game-room, which I said I thought was an odd place for it to be.
The shower photos were hours after the earlier ones, and I don't know why the bag would be where it was left. Obviously, the camera was taken from the game-room and into the bathroom out of it's case.





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