117 replies to this topic

[the L]

Simbi Laveau, on 09 February 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

or SEE A DOCTOR  

Or peer review?

[Ryu]

Has anyone overlooked the fact that this place is a FORUM?

People of all viewpoints come here to discuss and maybe, just maybe (heaven forbid) someone might learn something.
And heaven forbid that a believer be made to think about other views and maybe think that their view might have been misplaced..same with some of us horrible, slimy and detestable skeptics.

If all a believer wants is to be surrounded by like minded people who just nod blindly and never once post an opposing view then maybe you need to find a place that does just that.

[Tesla II]

About proofs...

One or few people had a belief that earth wasn't flat, but they didnt had proof, so they sailed and when people expected them to fall to space they disappeared and came back after a month or so... They shown the people earth in reality wasnt flat,,, Most historic exmaple ever...

You dont need proof for obvious things... ( Those depends on subject )

Edited by Tesla II, 09 February 2013 - 10:18 PM.

[Tesla II]

freetoroam, on 09 February 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

Why don't you all post in a forum for people who think people who are believers



============================================
Certain things i do believe in, but not necessarily understand.
So you want a forum where everyone agrees with each other and if someone puts something which has been debunked, you would rather not know?
Think this forum would not last for too long if everyone agreed and nodded yes yes all the time.

Yet not all so called " debunkers " are right have you thought about that? Not everything lets say NASA says is true and what once used to be just a belief is becoming a fact as days go by...Maybe US residents feel that NASA is all shiny and stuff... i see them in very diffrent light... They are all shiny, but they too have a dark,secretive side... Every story has 2 sides..

[orangepeaceful79]

the L, on 09 February 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Only fool doesnt believe in UFOs.

I guess that makes me a fool then.  I guess I should clarify.  I believe that there are Unidentifed Flying Objects.  I don't believe that they are from outer space.  Thats just me though.  

[the L]

orangepeaceful79, on 09 February 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

I guess that makes me a fool then.  I guess I should clarify.  I believe that there are Unidentifed Flying Objects.  I don't believe that they are from outer space.  Thats just me though.  

You contradict yourself.
You say you are fool -meaning you dont believe in UFOs. Then that there are UFOs.

UFO doesnt mean ET.

[the L]

Ryu, on 09 February 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

Has anyone overlooked the fact that this place is a FORUM?

People of all viewpoints come here to discuss and maybe, just maybe (heaven forbid) someone might learn something.
And heaven forbid that a believer be made to think about other views and maybe think that their view might have been misplaced..same with some of us horrible, slimy and detestable skeptics.

If all a believer wants is to be surrounded by like minded people who just nod blindly and never once post an opposing view then maybe you need to find a place that does just that.

Ofcourse its forum. And when you constantly want to shut down conversation by insults, surpressions, personal attacks even ignoring members that means that we are heading that this stop to be forum.
Personally I, and Im sure many others "belivers"(?), would rather discuss with people who have sceptic view rather then person who would believe in anything.
But I admire and adore discussing with people who are open minded. As recently joined member (he first come to my mind Parsec).

[the L]

Problems I have with so called sceptics on UM is this.

When we debate and you give arguments. Lets say 5 of them. They shake your one argument of five, and rest of four are intact. Yet so called sceptic start to cheers like he debunks your whole theory. And others joined him. Others so called sceptics. Then they start to teasing you because they debunk you one of five arguments.
Whats even worst in that debunkery post it is often (about 85% cases) hidden insult. As they want to make you insulted. They posts are full of agression.
As I said in one of my previous post radicalism at it best



Now all that above is wrong on so many levels. First of all its wrong because kills conversation. Personally only way to deal with it its ignoring insults, teasing and agression. Ignoring surpression of idea. Its wrong in the first place because so called sceptics ignore rest of 4 arguments. Because they debunk you one argument they in almost every situation will try to dicredit you as person and in that way discredit yours rest of 4 arguments. Its wrong because its against forum rules. Its wrong because of their lack of knowledge they will often try to make personal attack. And whats again wrong others will press like button. Its like in school. When bully teasing nerds and others with no opinon will smile or keep quite. And we all know that being silent is sign of aprovement. I see those so called sceptics as insecure persons. Because if they were not insecure they would feel comfortable discussing your dilema, questions amd ideas. Yet those so called sceptics wait to cut down conversation to discredit you and say: Next!

Ofcourse I could say many names of persons who doesnt act like that. And they are real sceptic. I remember when I admit my ignorance about astronomy how MID ( RIP ) felt comfortable in conversation. When you discuss about ancient Egypt with member Kmt_Sesh you will find he is comfortable in talking about your idea. No matter that he doesnt agree with you. He show no fear. He show patience. He teach you. He gave counter arguments. And most importantly he isnt malicious so you dont feel bad to ask him another thing.

There are sceptics and sceptics on UM.

Edited by the L, 09 February 2013 - 11:21 PM.

[the L]

And there are few members (sceptics) who you can say everytime and anytime  whatever you want about filed they knew about and you will get polite answer. Even if you have almost impossible idea (which I found interesting). Maybe they will not give developed answer but you will get penetrating post. Like cormac, sepul and others.

Im saying this all because its sad what I wrote in the beging of this post. There are few members...

If we all act more civil, polite, friendly and easygoing no matter about our different views we would get better converasations and debates we will all be like that.
Because we are sitting on opposite side of table doesnt mean we are enemies. Lets be conversation partners. Different opinions make us rich as collective.


Edit: here is one analogy. Lets say we have different types of wheat. And we destroy all types except one. And one day disease came and kills our wheat. And we are doomed. Thats why is important to have different opinins. Thats why is important to have different religions.

Our differences should be bridge. UM should be bridge of our different ideas.

Different ideas produce more insights and more ideas. More theories.
One member is from Holland. Everytime I see him I remeber story about Dutch republic in 17 century.
UM should be Dutch republic from 17 century. Or any other society which in golden age allow different thoughts. Which later triggered scientific revolution.

Edited by the L, 09 February 2013 - 11:42 PM.

[Professor T]

Simbi Laveau, on 09 February 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

I was just reading this thread , http://www.unexplain...howtopic=242661 ,and it makes one ponder ,WHY .

The title of this forum ,is UNEXPLAINED MYSTERIES ,and each sub forum has a very definative title as well.
Why,if you do not believe in anything unexplained ,occult ,mysterious or conspiracy ,why do any of the non believers post and come to this forum then .

Why don't you all post in a forum for people who think people who are believers , are just all delusional .

And I'm not trying to start flame wars ,but it begs the question ,are people who post in forum for things they do NOT believe in ,only posting to creat trouble ,belittle others ,or be a troll ....


If you're a non believer ,what do you get out of a forum for unexplained mysteries ?

I think that when Non-believers or Sceptics Identify themselves as being "Non-believers or Sceptics" that any mention or promotion of Belief or proof in Unexplained things is perceived as a personal attack on their persona..

The result of these percieved threats to their persona/ego is attack & defence in their postings..

[SirMorgenStar]

Balance is important, it wouldn't be very healthy if everyone just agreed with every single theory and topic that was posted.

[Archimedes]

Professor T, on 09 February 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

I think that when Non-believers or Sceptics Identify themselves as being "Non-believers or Sceptics" that any mention or promotion of Belief or proof in Unexplained things is perceived as a personal attack on their persona..

The result of these percieved threats to their persona/ego is attack & defence in their postings..

I haven identified two people on this thread who have made claims of their beliefs being "attacked" - The L and Simbi Laveau

To quote them:

The L said:

Because of their lack of knowledge they attack on personal level.

Simbi Laveau said:

[thanks Chrisz for doing my homework]
..here are also some who cures they complexes by attacking peoples..
..Being attacked for my beliefs and ideas..
..I don't like being told I'm a liar,delluded..
..attacking someone for their ideas and beliefs..
..they attack on personal level..

So far the evidence doesn't point to 'skeptics' feeling they are being attacked personally, it points to 'believers' feeling they are being attacked personally.   That doesn't warrant well for your theory about 'skeptics' feeling they are being personally attacked.  No 'skeptic' on this thread has said anything about feeling they are personally attacked. Granted thread isn't much of a sample, but still.  It seems in my experience 'believers' are much more likely to get personally offended, stomp their feet and quit the forum over what they deem 'personal attacks' than any of the 'skeptics'.

ps I put 'skeptic' and 'believer' in quote marks as I don't feel they are very useful phrases, being overly narrow and easy to use tools for one beating the other over the head with as a term of insult.

edit: This forum always messes up my text formatting.  Hence this edit.

Edited by Archimedes, 10 February 2013 - 12:00 AM.

[SpiritWriter]

orangepeaceful79, on 09 February 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

An internet search for Bigfoot information is what first led me to UM.  That was January a year ago.  I'd grown up loving paranormal things, cryptids especially.  My interest had flagged for a decade or so and was re-kindled by viewing "Findind Bigfoot" for the first time during their New Year's day marathon.  I thought the show was kinda stupid, and very slanted in its depictions, but my interest was burning bright in Bigfoot again nevertheless.

What I found after posting in the Crypto forum for a week or so is that all the things I had held to so firmly in my belief of cryptid creatures was in fact, not evidence at all.  One member in particular was instrumental in this area of growth for me.  Its was as if my beliefs in cryptids and then later on for all paranormal things for which there has yet to be conclusive, irrefutable evidence produced for just evaporated like mist in the morning sun.

I have realized a great deal of my true nature as a result of this.  I am very empirically driven, I have difficulty believing in things that are not objectively defined.  Everyone takes comfort in certain things - I take comfort in what can be proven, what is true fact that applies to us all.

Through all this, however - my interest in the paranormal has remained strong.  Its fascinating stuff, although for me now it is fascinating because of the psychology behind the  beliefs of others rather than my own believing.  I went through a phase where I'd just rail on any believer on most any topic and because of people like Simbi, Seeker79, and a few others I've dialed that back a bit for a more respectful approach.

My approach to most of these topics these days is that things like Ghosts, Cryptids, and other paranormal topics are unlikely based on the lack of any evidence that is solid and objected.  Notice that I didn't say impossible.  Impossible is an incredibly large word, much like always or never and should be used sparingly and only when there is no other alternative.  

I come here because there is a part of me that would love to be proven wrong someday.  I'd be thrilled if there were real live cryptids living in the world, or if ghosts were real.  That'd be really cool.  But I've got to be PROVEN wrong.  I won't just accept what you, or you, or you tell me you think you saw.  Not because I think any of you are liars, but because I know how fallible I am, and I'm no worse or better than anyone else.  The potential for mistakes when dealing with humans is much more likely than the existence of paranormals in my opinion.

I like that UM has a mix of people.  Some of them are irritating, but sometimes even the most irritating person has something prescient to say.  So with that I'll stop this essay.

See you in the threads!

I just want to point out that you said you would love to be proven wrong someday but you cant believe what anybody has to say... so hows that gonna work?

Let me tell you a real life ghost story:

I was in the seventh grade and waiting for my school bus. A friend of mine's sister, who was in highschool at the time and really pretty was walking down the street. I wasn't surprised because her mom worked at a store which was on the corner. I didnt say hi because I was really shy and thought perhaps she didn't know who I was. She walked right past me. When I got on the school bus my best friend was sitting next to the girl I saw the sister of. I thought this was odd because she always saved a seat for me. I told the girl: "I just saw your sister" her face was blank I think she was in shock, she wasnt crying, just quiet. My friend said. "That was really mean! Dont you know her sister was murdered yesterday." But no.... actually I didnt know that. I had seen her ghost. (Ghosts can sometimes take on a solid form - by the way this young lady was slaughtered - cut into pieces by her gang member boyfriend ... please teach your daughters, nieces etc.. how to avoid characters like these..)

So this, among other things I have experienced are proof for me. I can not wave this away with any sort of human fallibility of the mind notions.. really and why should I want to. It is my personal belief that it is unhealthy not to accept reality. If the spiritual world has made itself known to you, why reject it - why trick your mind into thinking what you saw was fake?  Experiencers of these phenomenon are made to feel alone but we are not alone. Many have experienced things, but many have been afraid to speak!

I can appreciate reasons for skeptism but what I don't appreciate, is that some skeptics would try to take away from what someone else has experienced just because they don't believe. We dont experience all the same things in life, thats just how it is, but just because you havent seen it doesn't make it not true...

Also im sure you have read many threads where there have been shared experiences.. if it was only in peoples minds how could two or more people experience it at the same time?

Edited by SpiritWriter, 10 February 2013 - 12:52 AM.

[the L]

Archimedes, on 09 February 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

It seems in my experience 'believers' are much more likely to get personally offended, stomp their feet and quit the forum over what they deem 'personal attacks' than any of the 'skeptics'.

Thats your view. On which, ofcourse I dont agree. Why would I be offended because one have no arguments and start to attack on personal level. Im not offended. If I have time I respond to him or her. If not I ignore their insults.

Maybe you twist things. Being offended and noticing things.

What you want to tell that we are imagining? That we see insults while there are no insults around?
Or that we should ignore insults and do not discuss about them? Again surpression.

[Cryptid_Control]

If this forum was just full of believers there wouldn't be much to discuss now would there? That's the reason I continue to visit, without the skeptics It'd bore me!