127 replies to this topic

[Frank Merton]

Unless he goes public, I feel that is entirely between him and his God.

[keithisco]

Frank Merton, on 13 February 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Unless he goes public, I feel that is entirely between him and his God.

He HAS gone Public at today's Mass in St Peter's square

[seeder]

heres an odd story


http://itccs.org/201...alth-by-easter/

[trancelikestate]

[NiteMarcher]

Cardinal Bertone is currently the camerlengo. As of 20:00, rome time, on Feb. 28th he will take over as the head of the vatican state. He is also the Cardinal secretary of state. The vatican version of a prime minister. Thirdly, he is also a member of the College of Cardinals, which retains authority over the government of the church, in a limited role. On February 28th, at 20:00 rome time, he will become the most powerful person in the catholic church.

[WHO U KIDDIN]

Jeremiah65, on 11 February 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Ask and ye shall receive...

Francis Arinze - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Cardinal Peter Turkson - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Cardinal Angelo Scola - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Cardinal Tarcisco Bertone - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Jorge Mario Bergoglio - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Leonardo Sandri - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Claudio Hummes - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Dionigi Tettamanzi - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Count Christoph Von Schoenborn - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Archbishop Raymond Burke - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Cardinal Marc Ouellet - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Daniel DiNardo - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Cardinal William Levada - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Archbishop Piero Marini - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Keith O'Brien - [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Gianfranco Ravasi - [link to en.wikipedia.org]

Don't know if that is the complete list but...that is what I dug up.

It would appear there is a Peter on the List...Peter Turkson and from other articles I read, it appears he is one of the top choices.  Could he be the Petrus Romanus?

I have to say...somewhat tongue in cheek and somewhat stunned....If you recall, it's only been a couple of weeks since the Pope released "the dove of peace" and it was attacked by the seagull.  Bad Omen maybe?  nah...just being ornery...

Actually there's another Peter on that list, Piero Marini. Peiro is Italian for Peter.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Piero_Marini

[The Silver Thong]

I hope the next poop is called Peter and this bs is again proven to be a foolish belief. Man kind needs to grow up ant the Vatican is a crap show that need to go. Cant Jesus just kill the people there with his return.

[Paranoid Android]

Br Cornelius, on 13 February 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Tracking the number of people who call themselves agnostic or atheist is a far better indication of the religious status of a nation. This is because for most people saying you are a Catholic or a Protestant is a default position which requires almost no committment to active participation in religious practice.
To declare yourself an agnostic or an atheist requires an act of will to declare that you are positively not a member of a religious denomination.

When you look at figures across the world the rise of agnostism and atheism is much stronger than the rise or decline of a declaration of faith. In Ireland those declaring catholisim  has dropped by 10% over the last decade (from a 90% baseline), whilst those declaring atheism/agnostism has risen by 400%.

The secular are winning the demographic battle of faith and increasingly so among the young who will define the faith of our collective future.

Br Cornelius

Those statistics are actually quite irrelevant.  Just because one organisation drops 10% and another rises 400% does not mean the numbers are unequal.  Let me put it this way.  If there are 1 thousand Catholics in Ireland, then a drop in 10% means 100 people dropped their faith.  If there is only 1 atheist/agnostic in Ireland, then a 400% rise means there are now 5 atheists/agnostics.  I'm using low numbers to get my point across.

[Br Cornelius]

Paranoid Android, on 14 February 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Those statistics are actually quite irrelevant.  Just because one organisation drops 10% and another rises 400% does not mean the numbers are unequal.  Let me put it this way.  If there are 1 thousand Catholics in Ireland, then a drop in 10% means 100 people dropped their faith.  If there is only 1 atheist/agnostic in Ireland, then a 400% rise means there are now 5 atheists/agnostics.  I'm using low numbers to get my point across.

I never implied anything other than that. My point is that atheism and agnostism (the fence sitters) are a strongly growing group whilst catholism is in slow decline from a very high start.

Br Cornelius

[Frank Merton]

There is a strong Roman Catholic presence in Vietnam, dating from the days of French rule.  Under the Communists, of course, they didn't do very well, and were tightly constrained, but now things have opened up quite a bit (I'm not sure but I think the government still keeps a veto on who may be the head of the church here).

I think the Catholics use to do a great deal of good work in health care, education, and moral influence.  They also do harm dividing up families with their proselytizing and insistence that Catholics only marry Catholics.  Of course their superstitious attitudes about conception and abortion and gays and their attitude that men should run the family are all barriers to social progress.

We have a CaoDai movement in Vietnam that recognizes Jesus Christ as one of its deities, I suspect from Catholic influence, and that has shown marked sectarian tendencies, again I think because of the influence of Catholic sectarian intolerance.  Still, the Buddhists here have not been influences by all this and have regularly welcomed Catholics and offered no opposition to Catholic activity except when the S. Vietnamese government began trying to suppress Buddhism under the Diem regime, and then the resistance was limited to peaceful protests and self-immolations.

[and then]

seeder, on 14 February 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

heres an odd story


http://itccs.org/201...alth-by-easter/

And Barney Fife is probably going to serve the warrant  

[Frank Merton]

It will be served in Boone, North Carolina, no doubt, during an upcoming Papal visit to this important center.

[Paranoid Android]

Br Cornelius, on 14 February 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

I never implied anything other than that. My point is that atheism and agnostism (the fence sitters) are a strongly growing group whilst catholism is in slow decline from a very high start.

Br Cornelius

I'm not denying that Christianity is on the decline.  I have my reasons why I think this is, but they are not relevant to discussion.  What is relevant, though, is your choice to refer to an decrease of "10%" in Catholicism but a rise of "400%" in atheism/agnosticism.

This reminds me of a book I was reading a few years back.  In it, it discusses the election of a local MP and how the election campaign against the incumbent MP included the challenger putting in their campaign that under the current administration violent crime had risen 100% in the term that he was in office.  It was a small town, so such a sharp rise in violence was met with shock.  Has their small country town become so violent?  The person writing the book tracked down the official statistics, and it was true - last year, 1 person was the victim of a violent crime.  This year, 2 people were violently assaulted.

I can't recall the source of this, I just remember reading it.  I'm simply using this to point out how sensationalist it may be to use percentages.  This local council mentioned would barely bat an eye-lid if the challenger said that violent crime had risen from 1 to 2 incidents.  But saying "100% increase" is a provocative sentence designed to elicit an emotional response.

Though I haven't looked at the number of Catholics/Atheists/Agonstics in Ireland, I suspect something similar is happening by saying that Catholicism has decreased 10% while atheism/agnosticism has increased 400%.  Those numbers mean absolutely nothing to me, unless actual numbers are provided.  Without them, they just sound like sensationalism.

~ PA

Edited by Paranoid Android, 14 February 2013 - 11:50 AM.

[Br Cornelius]

Paranoid Android, on 14 February 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

I'm not denying that Christianity is on the decline.  I have my reasons why I think this is, but they are not relevant to discussion.  What is relevant, though, is your choice to refer to an decrease of "10%" in Catholicism but a rise of "400%" in atheism/agnosticism.

This reminds me of a book I was reading a few years back.  In it, it discusses the election of a local MP and how the election campaign against the incumbent MP included the challenger putting in their campaign that under the current administration violent crime had risen 100% in the term that he was in office.  It was a small town, so such a sharp rise in violence was met with shock.  Has their small country town become so violent?  The person writing the book tracked down the official statistics, and it was true - last year, 1 person was the victim of a violent crime.  This year, 2 people were violently assaulted.

I can't recall the source of this, I just remember reading it.  I'm simply using this to point out how sensationalist it may be to use percentages.  This local council mentioned would barely bat an eye-lid if the challenger said that violent crime had risen from 1 to 2 incidents.  But saying "100% increase" is a provocative sentence designed to elicit an emotional response.

Though I haven't looked at the number of Catholics/Atheists/Agonstics in Ireland, I suspect something similar is happening by saying that Catholicism has decreased 10% while atheism/agnosticism has increased 400%.  Those numbers mean absolutely nothing to me, unless actual numbers are provided.  Without them, they just sound like sensationalism.

~ PA

The figures are such that atheism/agnostism have risen from almost nothing to about 100,000 which is a significant number in a short time. This is in the face of complacency when the easiest thing to say, and what most people do say, is declare themselves catholic just because they were christened that way. To declare yourself an agnostic/atheist is a positive act of will much stronger than the thousands of lapsed catholic who still accept the term Catholic to describe themselves.

This pattern is repeated strongly across the world. Secularism is the growing declaration of "faith".

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 14 February 2013 - 12:31 PM.

[Paranoid Android]

Br Cornelius, on 14 February 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

The figures are such that atheism/agnostism have risen from almost nothing to about 100,000 which is a significant number in a short time. This is in the face of complacency when the easiest thing to say, and what most people do say, is declare themselves catholic just because they were christened that way. To declare yourself an agnostic/atheist is a positive act of will much stronger than the thousands of lapsed catholic who still accept the term Catholic to describe themselves.

This pattern is repeated strongly across the world. Secularism is the growing declaration of "faith".

Br Cornelius

I'm not disagreeing about the rise of secularism.  Unfortunately my point seems to be lost concerning the idea of sensationalism and statistics.....