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Did we land on the Moon or didn't we ?


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#1    UM-Bot

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:31 PM

<strong class='bbc'>Image credit: NASA</strong>
Image credit: NASA
William B Stoecker: America's manned space program began with Project Mercury, using Redstone and Atlas rockets to send men up on suborbital and later orbital missions. This was followed by Project Gemini, which used Titan rockets to launch two men at a time into Earth orbit, and included EVA (extra vehicular activity) missions where the astronauts actually ventured outside the spacecraft. Then came Project Apollo, using  Saturn Five rockets to send men to the Moon... or so we are told. Apollo One was a ground test of the systems, and a fire broke out that killed astronauts Grissom, White, and Chaffee. Gus Grissom was a critic of certain aspects of the space program, and he had nearly been killed before, when his Mercury capsule mysteriously sank into the ocean right after landing.

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#2    Esoteric Toad

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:50 PM

No we didn't land on the moon. Nor did we discover the 'New World'. Australia, the Hawaiian Islands, the wheel, writing, the spoken word, electricity, combustion engines, telecommunications, that zany claim about the thing called "the internet", arrowplanes (what a silly notion), no man can survive going faster than 40 mph, aqualungs and a myriad of so called "in ven shuns" (I forgot, no New Zeeeland either....or China, or anything).

Those that do not believe we succeeded in landing on the moon are a55hats.


#3    acute

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:26 PM

Hahaha, yes of course we landed on the moon.  They could fake the moon landings themselves — but they couldn't fake the Cold War paranoia beforehand, the one-upmanship that led to the first successful mission, or the euphoria demonstrated afterwards.






.

Edited by acute alan, 12 February 2013 - 11:27 PM.


#4    ali smack

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 02:03 PM

of course they were real


#5    Ashyne

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 07:39 PM

Why do Americans like to create conspiracies about everything, and are so paranoid?

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#6    MedicTJ

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:52 PM

View PostAshiene, on 13 February 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

Why do Americans like to create conspiracies about everything, and are so paranoid?

And why do you lump all Americans in with a few crackpots?  99 percent of the American public doesn't believe this hogwash.

99 percent of Americans aren't paranoid either.  Maybe instead of watching TV and getting all your information off the internet.......you should get to know some Americans personally.

Only then will you find out that there is really only one true conspiracy we all believe in.

How that no-talent piece of amphibian excrement Dr. Phil actually landed his own TV show.

Dr. Phil says that marriage is hard work.

I say....if marriage is hard work, you're doing it wrong.  Love is not work.  Love is eternal.

http://www.reverbnat...om/tjflickinger

#7    Goblin-5

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 03:50 PM

View PostAshiene, on 13 February 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

Why do Americans like to create conspiracies about everything, and are so paranoid?
Many Americans have a deep rooted mistrust of the "Government" seeing it as a remote powerful entity that seeks to control all aspects of their lives. Consequently you have a subset who will attribute anything and everything to a "Government conspiracy" thus leading to "Area 51, UFO's, 9-11 "truthers" etc. Every society has its whack jobs, but more importantly every society has a taste for the outlandish and bizzarre. Why do you think that there are so many tabloids like the "National Enquirer" or a myriad of celebrity mags perporting to "disclose' the secrets of the "celebrities" (Like I care  who has cellulite, whether Oprah is gay, who is a secret agent for the CIA and of course who is feuding with who or cheating on their spouse)


#8    Hasina

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 03:51 PM

Prove the moon is real first! ;3
http://www.revisioni...Revisionist.htm

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~MEH~


#9    spartan max2

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:52 PM

i dont expect this to be proof for anyone but here is my take.

I do not belive that we landed on the moon. At least not back then, i am sure we have by now. This is because my dad talked to one of the space dudes who was on the shuttel in a private interveiw and he said that it was all fake.

Which is not really that hard to belive we had ample motives to fake something like that. It was the cold war and russia was the one getting all the space flight achivements. So we had to step up

Edit: and for the recored i have not read the article yet. Will do soon. i apologize)

Edited by spartan max2, 14 February 2013 - 04:54 PM.

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#10    Saru

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 01:27 PM

Thread cleaned

Could we keep the comments on this article civil and constructive please.


#11    ChrLzs

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:31 AM

This post dedicated to the memory of MID..  Miss you, mate.

Time for a review of your article, William B Stoecker.  Actually, it is going to be a rebuttal.

The title is  "Did we land on the Moon or didn't we ?"   Well, the answer to that question is YES.

Indeed, dear reader, if you have a bit of science knowledge, basic logic and decent research skills you should be able to work that out for yourself by examining the evidence .. properly.  So we should first ask - why did Mr Stoecker ask that question?  He must have a reason to be giving any credence to the notion that we didn't go...  And playing devil's advocate - what if we didn't go, in other words, if NASA faked the Apollo missions..?  Well, to put it mildly, the enormity of the hoax is beyond belief.  In fact .. as I go through the article over the following few days and point out some easily verifiable facts, you will see that it would not just be an 'enormous' hoax - it was simply impossible to hoax.  Later in the series of posts I will be making, I will point out the reasons why it CANNOT possibly have been hoaxed - there are quite a few.

Yes, we went to the Moon.  It's as simple as that.

So let's go through the article, shall we?  I invite William B Stoecker to join in this thread and debate the points I will raise.  Before starting, it's worth noting that of the very, very few genuine 'Apollo deniers' that exist, even fewer ever defend their position or debate in public.  They prefer to barricade themselves behind websites where they can completely ignore rebuttals, or hide behind the facade of Youtube, where they can delete comments and block anyone but the few trolls they attract.

I'm sure Mr Stoecker isn't like that, and will engage those of us who are knowledgeable on Apollo, space sciences, photography, etc.

So let's look at the content of the article, bit by bit.  It starts well enough...

Quote

America's manned space program began with Project Mercury, using Redstone and Atlas rockets to send men up on suborbital and later orbital missions. This was followed by Project Gemini, which used Titan rockets to launch two men at a time into Earth orbit, and included EVA (extra vehicular activity) missions where the astronauts actually ventured outside the spacecraft.
While all that is correct, Mr Stoecker has been rather shy about the accomplishments of Gemini, which was designed as a testing ground for the later moon missions.  So let's expand a little on this, as it will be very important later..  The entire reason for Gemini's existence was to work through all the make or break issues involved in a manned mission to the Moon.  ALL of the essential techniques (with an exception outlined below) were not only explored and tested - they were proven, then practiced and perfected during Gemini.

In particular, the Gemini missions covered:
- EVA techniques (in other words, working outside the spacecraft in a vacuum and low/zero G)
- 'long' duration missions, including checking things like radiation exposure, environmental systems and shielding techniques
- simple orbital maneuvers, such as re-aligning an orbit to allow rendezvous
- advanced orbital maneuvers including 'full re-acquirement' and also manual and assisted docking techniques

It is also worth noting that the Gemini missions were done in Earth orbit, obviously..  orbiting the Moon is a much simpler task - 1/6 gravity..

Much came before Gemini of course, but here are the important milestones that were achieved during this very successful program.

Gemini 1 - first general unmanned test flight to test booster and overall spacecraft design - successful
Gemini 2 - sub-orbital unmanned test of systems and heat shields - successful
Gemini III - first manned flight to test environmental systems and radiation exposures, three orbits - successful
Posted Image[Ed Whites first EVA, June 1965]
Gemini IV - four day flight, included first EVA - a 22 minute space walk - successful
Gemini V - eight day flight, introduced fuel cells for higher efficiency electrical power, tested all navigation & rendezvous systems, 120 orbits - successful
(Gemin VI - mission scrubbed and rescheduled as Gemini VIA when the Agena target to be used for docking practice failed)
Gemini VIA - 2 day flight for rendezvous & station-keeping practice at same time as Gemini VII - successful
Gemini VII - 14 days, tested all systems for long term mission, also practiced rendezvous and station-keeping systems - successful
Posted Image[Gemini VIA and VII rendezvous - December 1965]
Gemini VIII - 2 days, full rendezvous and successful docking system test but a misfiring thruster caused a mission abort - Armstrong was able to recover control of craft but mission was cut short as a safety precaution
Gemini IX - 3 days, perfected various types of rendezvous and docking procedures, also 2 EVA's, 44 orbits - successful except for minor issues with 'dummy' docking craft
Gemini X - 3 days, more system checks and test of augmented Agena rocket systems, over an hour of EVA's, 43 orbits - successful
Gemini XI - 3 days, set altitude record, more rendezvous and docking tests, proof of radiation safety, 44 orbits - successful  
Gemin XII - 4 days, more tests of rendezvous and docking, Aldrin set record for longest EVA - successful

All of that happened over a period spanning 1965 and 1966.  And as you can see, virtually *everything* that the Apollo program needed was tried and tested, except for actually going there!  All that was required was a maneuver called a TLI (trans lunar injection) to push the spacecraft onto an elliptical orbit that would just happen to go near enough to the Moon to then readjust into a lunar orbit, and then .. the actual descent to the Moon.
(In case you are wondering, I'll come back to radiation and why it wasn't an issue, in *great detail* later..)

These were not particularly difficult maneuvers - we had already sent many spacecraft outside orbit, and of course the moon only has 1/6 of earth's gravity, so orbiting it and descending and ascending is a whole lot easier than doing the same stuff from earth orbit.  Especially given that all the re-acquisition, rendezvous and docking procedures had already been tested - Gemini had nailed that stuff easily - why, just ask 'Dr Rendezvous'.  (More about who that is later...)


So a question for Mr Stoecker, before I proceed .. - does he deny that Mercury and Gemini happened as history records them?

And does he dispute anything at all that I have said above?


BTW, if anyone thinks I have missed something important or wishes to debate anything I have posted to date, please feel free - but .. do your homework first.

Edited by Chrlzs, 16 February 2013 - 12:09 PM.

All my posts about Apollo are dedicated to the memory of MID - who knew, lived and was an integral part of, Apollo.

"Like the JFK assassination conspiracy theories, the UFO issue probably will not go away soon, no matter what the CIA does or says. The belief that we are not alone in the universe is too emotionally appealing and the distrust of our government is too pervasive to make the issue amenable to traditional scientific studies or rational explanation and evidence." - Gerald K Haines

#12    ThatSameFool

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:31 PM

Why were these not mentioned? Am i missing something?
http://www.space.com...-sites-lro.html


#13    badeskov

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:54 PM

View PostThatSameFool, on 16 February 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

Why were these not mentioned? Am i missing something?
http://www.space.com...-sites-lro.html

You are not missing anything, Mr. Stoecker is.

Cheers,
Badeskov

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#14    badeskov

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:02 PM

View PostChrlzs, on 16 February 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

This post dedicated to the memory of MID..  Miss you, mate.

...

Very good post, Chrlz. Frankly, I wouldn't hold my breath while waiting for Mr. Stoecker to get back to you, but I would most appreciate to be positively surprised.

Cheers,
Badeskov

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!! What a ride!". Said to to Dean Karnazes by a running buddy.

#15    ThatSameFool

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:14 PM

View Postbadeskov, on 16 February 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

You are not missing anything, Mr. Stoecker is.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Alright, thanks





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