10 replies to this topic

[Still Waters]

Pope Benedict XVI made headlines today (Feb. 11) when he announced he was stepping down — something no pope has done since the Middle Ages. While that's big news, the Catholic Church has seen much more dramatic upheavals.

From a cadaver on trial to a three-timing pope, here are 10 of the most interesting church fathers in history.

http://www.livescien...s-benedict.html

[ealdwita]

(Look out - Ealdwita snippet!)

Let us not overlook England's only Pope - Nicholas Breakspear who was Pope Adrian IV (1154-1159). Another English claimant to the Papal throne was rumoured to have been a woman! This tale tells of  a female Pope known as 'Joan' who presided over the Church in the mid-850's. It's an obvious fable because there's no room to fit in an 'extra' Pope anywhere in the line of succession.

I subscribe to the opinion that the story of 'Pope Joan' was in fact, a satire on the effeminate weakness of Pope John VIII (872-882), although many candidates have been named over the centuries.

[Asadora]

Ealdwita, I really enjoy reading your history inspired posts, because somehow, it makes me feel that I'm getting first hand knowledge.

Keep up the great work, my friend!

(I state the above with sincerity and complete honesty. I do really respect your historical posts and learn quite a bit, so thank you for sharing!))

[Frank Merton]

Is there any truth to the notion that Cardinal Wolsey was trying to become pope as described in "The Tudors?"

[ealdwita]

Asadora, on 12 February 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

Ealdwita, I really enjoy reading your history inspired posts, because somehow, it makes me feel that I'm getting first hand knowledge.

Keep up the great work, my friend!

(I state the above with sincerity and complete honesty. I do really respect your historical posts and learn quite a bit, so thank you for sharing!))

Thank you Asadora, that's very kind of you to say so.

[ealdwita]

Frank Merton, on 12 February 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Is there any truth to the notion that Cardinal Wolsey was trying to become pope as described in "The Tudors?"

OK, this is where it becomes a bit complicated, but I'll try my best.....

We have to go back to 1520 when Wolsey was made 'stage manager' for Henry VIII's famous meeting with Francis I of France.  On the 7th.June, the festivities known as 'The Field Of the Cloth of Gold' began and continued for 3 weeks, each monarch trying to outdo the other! Records of golden marquees and fountains continuously flowing with wine appear, and it became one of the most expensive charades in history. I say 'charade' because the Venetian Ambassador afterwards wrote ""these sovereigns are not at peace. They hate each other cordially." But in the end, the two kings signed a treaty of friendship.

With Wolsey again at the helm, a further meeting with the Holy Roman Emperor, Charles V, who was furious with Henry and Francis for going behind his back, was set up and due largely to Wolsey's efforts, on July 14, 1520, Henry signed a treaty with Charles in which both parties agreed not to make any new alliances with France for the next two years.

Wolsey arranged the breaking of Princess Mary's (Later - Mary I of England - Bloody Mary!) betrothal to the French Dauphin, and in the spring of 1521 Charles proposed to marry her, "to the great happyness of the Queen". In November, Wolsey was granted the abbacy of St. Albans which he thought would be another step towards his goal of the Papacy.

When Pope Leo X died in 1521, Wolsey expected Charles to influence the vote for the papacy in his (Wolsey's) favour. Instead, Charles had the Cardinals ignore his old chum and elected his old tutor, Adriaan Florenszoon Boeyens, who became Pope Adrian VI.

The relations between Charles and Wolsey (who was still, in effect, in control of the government) further deteriorated when Pope Adrian VI died in 1523, and Wolsey's ambitions to be elected Pope were again thwarted. Charles had the Cardinals elect Clement VII, the Medici. By now Wolsey knew himself deceived. On the election of Pope Clement, Wolsey wrote: "For my part, as I take God to record, I am more joyous thereof than if it had fortuned upon my person."...Sarcasm was one of Wolsy's many accomplishments!  As consolation, the new Pope gave Wolsey the bishopric of Durham in exchange for Bath and Wells, and Wolsey still held the Archbishopric of York.

So in short, the answer to your question Frank is Yes. (It's one of the few facts that the abysmal series actually got right IMO!)

Edited by ealdwita, 12 February 2013 - 05:32 PM.

[Coffey]

ealdwita, on 12 February 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

(Look out - Ealdwita snippet!)

Let us not overlook England's only Pope - Nicholas Breakspear who was Pope Adrian IV (1154-1159). Another English claimant to the Papal throne was rumoured to have been a woman! This tale tells of  a female Pope known as 'Joan' who presided over the Church in the mid-850's. It's an obvious fable because there's no room to fit in an 'extra' Pope anywhere in the line of succession.

I subscribe to the opinion that the story of 'Pope Joan' was in fact, a satire on the effeminate weakness of Pope John VIII (872-882), although many candidates have been named over the centuries.

How do you know these things. LOL

[ealdwita]

Coffey, on 12 February 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

How do you know these things. LOL

From many long, frustrating years of trying to persuade hundreds of students that History is a subject worth the effort! The trick is to make it fun. (Whether I succeeded or not is open to question!) I still enjoy it though - as you may have noticed!

[Coffey]

ealdwita, on 12 February 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

From many long, frustrating years of trying to persuade hundreds of students that History is a subject worth the effort! The trick is to make it fun. (Whether I succeeded or not is open to question!) I still enjoy it though - as you may have noticed!

Must have been very fulfilling.  Very important to know your hsitory, I was going to get one of the many qoutes to back up my statement, but you've probbaly heard them all qouted to death. lol

Edited by Coffey, 12 February 2013 - 08:25 PM.

[ealdwita]

Coffey, on 12 February 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Must have been very fulfilling.  Very important to know your hsitory, I was going to get one of the many qoutes to back up my statement, but you've probbaly heard them all qouted to death. lol

I've probably used most of them to death too! (Along with flying blackboard erasers and small books - anything to get the little thugs' attention!)

[Coffey]

ealdwita, on 12 February 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

I've probably used most of them to death too! (Along with flying blackboard erasers and small books - anything to get the little thugs' attention!)

Haha, one of my old teachers would use the flying blackboard eraser as well. That was jsut before the PC brigade came about. (Not actually supposed to say blackboard either anymore... LOL)