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State of the Union


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#61    F3SS

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:32 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 14 February 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:


Of course that's a good deal better than American conservatism -- they see the problems people have as their own damn fault and they don't deserve any help.
Wether it's their fault or wether they deserve help or not is besides the point and circumstantial. You've made a cold generalization. We shouldn't be forced to help a failing system that more and more people everyday look to as a way of life rather that a lift to get them on their feet.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-, 14 February 2013 - 12:33 PM.


#62    RavenHawk

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:05 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 14 February 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

That's the problem with American liberalism -- they see so many injustices and so many things wrong in the world, and they want to solve all of them, even though no country is rich enough to be able to do any such thing, and the effort to do so would impoverish the country.
Well, that's the problem right there.  Government wasn't meant to solve the world's problems.  The only means that government has is stealing other people's money.  Why not let solutions originate from among the people and let them use their money.  Government was meant to only facilitate what the people do, not control it.  If these Liberals want to solve the world's problems then let them spend their own money organizing a movement.  Run it up the flagpole and see who salutes.

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Of course that's a good deal better than American conservatism -- they see the problems people have as their own damn fault and they don't deserve any help.
That is incorrect.  True, it is usually the person's own damn fault but the Conservative would rather see it not happen again which means confronting the original problem and not ignoring it so that it happens again.  But the solution is usually human programming to improve their habits.  But it's not the place of government to perform social programming.  It is up to the individual.

This means teaching values in school once again, challenging the child to succeed and learn how to deal with the real world.  Any form of welfare forces dependency on the government and liberal indoctrination is no different.  Social promotion gives the child no life skills other than to depend on the government.  But Man was not made to be dependent on someone else.  $-hit happens and people thrive on solving their own problems.  Building their own lives (yes they build it themselves).  It's not that these people don't deserve any help; they deserve the right to fix it themselves (catch the subtlety).  And when they do need something, it should be a helping hand, not a handout.

The focus of Liberals is not on the people, it is on themselves.  This is Munchausen by Proxy (MBPS).  Most Liberals are Narcissistic and this President has been diagnosed with it.  That means NVD which is a close cousin to MBPS.  One really doesn't need to worry about the clinical/technical aspects.  One just needs to understand that people that have these tend to gravitation to positions of authority.  This is one of the motivating factors that the Founding Fathers created the Constitution, so that these personalities could not usurp the power invested in government.  But that is what has happened.  As Reagan so eloquently put, "Government is not the solution, Government is the problem".

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#63    Gummug

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:28 AM

View PostCorp, on 13 February 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Kind of surprise a thread hasn't been made yet.

Anyway nothing's on tv so decided to watch it and must say Obama seems to be really taking it to the GOP. Though some of the stuff he's bringing out doesn't sound that bad. Doubt much of it will actually happen but still some good ideas being put out there.

So let the debate begin. I have a feeling that most of our members will have nothing but positive things to say. :P ;)
Corp, I'm sorry but I feel like I have to ask: how much do you really like Obama? Because from your post it sounds like you decided to watch his state of the union only because nothing else was on...just wondering...

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#64    ninjadude

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:36 AM

View PostRavenHawk, on 14 February 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

The only means that government has is stealing other people's money.  W

Government taxes. It is not theft. That implies taking for no benefit. And yes I could spend years describing the benefits. How can you expect anyone to read your epistles further than that.

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#65    Gummug

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:58 AM

View Postpraetorian-legio XIII, on 13 February 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

I don't know you, so I'm not sure if this post is satirical or sarcastic (which I hope it is), but if your serious it has to be the most ridiculous post I've ever read. It's as stupid as saying " If you agree with Obama's policies you can only be two things....black racist, a democrat or both."
I know Michelle a bit, and I'm almost sure she was being sarcastic (sorry haven't read all the posts yet this has probably already been addressed).

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#66    Gummug

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:00 AM

View Post-Mr_Fess-, on 13 February 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

She's cool PLXiii. I'll vouch for her.
Yep it has already been addressed. That's what I get for posting before I'm caught up on the posts.

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#67    Michelle

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:05 AM

View PostGummug, on 15 February 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

I know Michelle a bit, and I'm almost sure she was being sarcastic (sorry haven't read all the posts yet this has probably already been addressed).

View PostGummug, on 15 February 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

Yep it has already been addressed. That's what I get for posting before I'm caught up on the posts.

I always love a knight in shining armore...thank you. :blush:


#68    Gummug

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:13 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 14 February 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

According to Captain Kirk, the greatest three words there are are "can I help".
For the Conservatives (on the whole) welfare is a hand to get you back on your feet, dust you off and send you on your wway - think the Biblical Good Samaratian, who dresses the blokes wounds and gives him a roof and a ed until he heals.
That's great, that's what my mom did, after my dad was institutionalized, she went on welfare, but just long enough to go back to school and become a teacher. (I guess as a teacher you could say she was still on the taxpayer's money but at least she was working!)

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#69    acidhead

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:14 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 14 February 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

That's the problem with American liberalism -- they see so many injustices and so many things wrong in the world, and they want to solve all of them, even though no country is rich enough to be able to do any such thing, and the effort to do so would impoverish the country.

Of course that's a good deal better than American conservatism -- they see the problems people have as their own damn fault and they don't deserve any help.

"One of the most pervasive political visions of our time is the vision of liberals as compassionate and conservatives as less caring"  --Thomas Sowell



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#70    Gummug

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:17 AM

View PostMichelle, on 15 February 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

I always love a knight in shining armore...thank you. :blush:
I feel like I kinda know you from your posts Michelle (and the occasional PM lol) and I greatly respect your point of view. May God bless you. I'm sorry I said "I'm almost sure Michelle was being sarcastic" I should have said, "I KNOW Michelle was being sarcastic".

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#71    Gummug

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:25 AM

View Postninjadude, on 15 February 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Government taxes. It is not theft. That implies taking for no benefit. And yes I could spend years describing the benefits. How can you expect anyone to read your epistles further than that.
So the inheritance tax (aka the death tax) is not stealing? I'll bet many would disagree with you...the benefits? Sure some taxes probably are beneficial, but taxes which support a welfare system which creates generation after generation dependent on welfare? People who are strong and young and healthy as a bull, but don't work because they choose not to? A Congress filled with people who make public service a career (I don't think being a senator or congressman was originally meant to be that), vote themselves raises, and who knows what all benefits, and make themselves exempt from the onerous laws they impose on others? These are the benefits that would take years to describe? Please don't get me wrong, not all tax money is wasted, maybe coincidentally...that would make an interesting study, how many tax dollars are wasted.

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#72    Michelle

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:25 AM

View PostGummug, on 15 February 2013 - 05:17 AM, said:

I feel like I kinda know you from your posts Michelle (and the occasional PM lol) and I greatly respect your point of view. May God bless you. I'm sorry I said "I'm almost sure Michelle was being sarcastic" I should have said, "I KNOW Michelle was being sarcastic".

That means a great deal to me...thank you.


#73    Gummug

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:28 AM

View Postacidhead, on 15 February 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

"One of the most pervasive political visions of our time is the vision of liberals as compassionate and conservatives as less caring"  --Thomas Sowell
Shouldn't that be "one of the most pervasive political illusions of our time, etc."?

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#74    Gummug

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:30 AM

View PostMichelle, on 15 February 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

That means a great deal to me...thank you.
You're welcome...
edited to remove smiling smiley because it did not convey the warmth and respect I wished to convey, therefore seemed a bit ludicrous.

Edited by Gummug, 15 February 2013 - 05:35 AM.

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#75    RavenHawk

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:59 AM

View Postninjadude, on 15 February 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Government taxes. It is not theft.
Yes, government taxes is theft.  It’s just that the people have just put up with it as an annoyance or a “light and transient cause”.

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That implies taking for no benefit.
Not exactly.  It does provide benefit.  That is why the people put up with it, but that doesn’t give the government free reign to take more and more.  

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And yes I could spend years describing the benefits.
Why do you think that because it is a *benefit* that that is what people want?  What people want is to be left alone, especially from the government.  All the people want from the government is to provide for defense, law enforcement, justice, and infrastructure.  That can be done with minimal taxes.

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How can you expect anyone to read your epistles further than that.
I personally don’t care.  You either understand or you don’t.  I find it quite easy to tell between the two.

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