50 replies to this topic

[Leave Britney alone!]

So a detail in the Jodi Arias trial is her telling her ex goodnight over the phone and that they should astral at the same time so they could maybe meet each other in the astral plane.

Now her ex was a Mormon and she was a recent convert.

My questions are which world religions share or allow New Age beliefs?

Even if the religion does not officially allow it how many adherents stil practice the New Age techniques such as astral travel, meditation, mindfulness meditation, and visualization?

[and then]

My guess is that if you asked the average Baptist you'd get an uncomfortable silence, followed by them quickly excusing themselves from your presence.  "new Age" is synonymous with Satanic to us.  You see, the dogma of the "New Age" is just the same lie from the garden repackaged with soothing sounds and words - "you can be as God"

[Leave Britney alone!]

You didn't answer the questions. I already know why fundamentalist Christians are opposed to the New Age. Not all Christians are fundamentalists or opposed to the New Age.

This is not spirituality vs skepticism either. This specific thread is to explore the intersection of major faiths and the New Age. Not to debate or only claim they are opposites.

[and then]

I believe you, on 14 February 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

You didn't answer the questions. I already know why fundamentalist Christians are opposed to the New Age. Not all Christians are fundamentalists or opposed to the New Age.

This is not spirituality vs skepticism either. This specific thread is to explore the intersection of major faiths and the New Age. Not to debate or only claim they are opposites.

Actually I think I did answer.  Unless I misunderstood, you asked WHICH religions either agreed with New Age doctrine OR had adherents who do so.  I was making the point that Baptists (the only ones I can speak knowledgeably of) do not accept this doctrine and most of the adherents follow the lead of the churches.  I'm very aware that most Christians are not "fundamentalists".  I did not post to attack, merely to answer - sorry if I stepped on your thread.

Edited by and then, 14 February 2013 - 09:34 AM.

[Frank Merton]

The value of meditation is of course a central concept in Buddhist practice, is encouraged on lay people and required of monks (although I've never heard of a monk not wanting to).  There are many kinds of meditation, ranging from relaxation exercises to learning how to incorporate novel ideas into one's belief system (not always wise), so it is generally thought that those who would meditate should get some sort of instruction and assessment first.

The second item on your list is unfamiliar to me.  "Astral travel" seems to imply some sort of travel among the stars, an idea strange to me, but Buddhism is of course tolerant of any spiritual experience, just so long as it is remembered that we very easily fool ourselves and that those with mental imbalances should be guided.

Mindfulness, meaning being aware of both what is going on in your mind and what is going on around you, is a central Buddhist concept, from which comes the understanding of mind as process and not as thing.  Mindfulness takes training, as we have a natural tendency to live our lives on "automatic steering" rather than being aware.  This leads to accidents, our being rude without intending, and so on, and it leads to more serious lapses.

The next item on your list is visualization.  I'm not sure if you mean in a medical context, where it can be important, or in a social context, where with prayer we try to alter aspects of the world.  Prayer differs in several important ways from meditation, since it involves active conversation, if with no one else other than oneself, but in a sense with existence, and is not relaxing and can be strenuous.

I might add another item to your list -- the development of compassion.  I am sure you didn't leave it off, but any effort at enlightenment requires the development of deep compassion for all sentience.  From this also derives our fundamental ethical precepts, so that we are not dependent on cultural norms nor on any authority or set of rules (although of course from compassion many rules naturally follow).

[Leave Britney alone!]

and then, on 14 February 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Actually I think I did answer.  Unless I misunderstood, you asked WHICH religions either agreed with New Age doctrine OR had adherents who do so.  I was making the point that Baptists (the only ones I can speak knowledgeably of) do not accept this doctrine and most of the adherents follow the lead of the churches.  I'm very aware that most Christians are not "fundamentalists".  I did not post to attack, merely to answer - sorry if I stepped on your thread.

Well I would have preferred that you tailored your response to be inline with that of an average Baptist instead of introducing the devil in this thread.

Frank Merton, on 14 February 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

The value of meditation is of course a central concept in Buddhist practice, is encouraged on lay people and required of monks (although I've never heard of a monk not wanting to).  There are many kinds of meditation, ranging from relaxation exercises to learning how to incorporate novel ideas into one's belief system (not always wise), so it is generally thought that those who would meditate should get some sort of instruction and assessment first.

The second item on your list is unfamiliar to me.  "Astral travel" seems to imply some sort of travel among the stars, an idea strange to me, but Buddhism is of course tolerant of any spiritual experience, just so long as it is remembered that we very easily fool ourselves and that those with mental imbalances should be guided.

Mindfulness, meaning being aware of both what is going on in your mind and what is going on around you, is a central Buddhist concept, from which comes the understanding of mind as process and not as thing.  Mindfulness takes training, as we have a natural tendency to live our lives on "automatic steering" rather than being aware.  This leads to accidents, our being rude without intending, and so on, and it leads to more serious lapses.

The next item on your list is visualization.  I'm not sure if you mean in a medical context, where it can be important, or in a social context, where with prayer we try to alter aspects of the world.  Prayer differs in several important ways from meditation, since it involves active conversation, if with no one else other than oneself, but in a sense with existence, and is not relaxing and can be strenuous.

I might add another item to your list -- the development of compassion.  I am sure you didn't leave it off, but any effort at enlightenment requires the development of deep compassion for all sentience.  From this also derives our fundamental ethical precepts, so that we are not dependent on cultural norms nor on any authority or set of rules (although of course from compassion many rules naturally follow).

Thank you for this primer and I suppose it narrowly answers my questions since Buddhism is a major world religion but most should already know that many (not all) New Age concepts are based on Buddhism.

Special thanks for including compassion. Astral travel is not really star travel and that is not the type of visualization I meant but your explanation was rather interesting.

If you know of other world religions besides Buddhism in regards to my questions please include them since that is what I am really asking about.

[Leave Britney alone!]

To be more clear send me links that reveal New Age beliefs mixing with more traditional religions or offer personal experiences where the two meet.

[Seeker79]

I believe you, on 14 February 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

So a detail in the Jodi Arias trial is her telling her ex goodnight over the phone and that they should astral at the same time so they could maybe meet each other in the astral plane.

Now her ex was a Mormon and she was a recent convert.

My questions are which world religions share or allow New Age beliefs?

Even if the religion does not officially allow it how many adherents stil practice the New Age techniques such as astral travel, meditation, mindfulness meditation, and visualization?

Astral travel is not "new age." it is standard form of interacting with spirit with its roots in shamanism much older than any religions. It should be called "old age". Unrecognized by religions, it is very probable the source of most of the founders and prophets of modern religions. Yes, it is even mentioned in the bible. Astral projection, shamanic journey, spirit travel, flight of the soul, OBE are all synonymous.

Religions cannot allow it because it is a way for people to have a spirituality without the mediums that religons provide even though the religions themselves were most likely inspired by "astral" experiences themselves.

Edited by Seeker79, 14 February 2013 - 11:28 AM.

[Leave Britney alone!]

Seeker79, on 14 February 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Astral travel is not "new age." it is standard form of interacting with spirit with its roots in shamanism much older than any religions. It should be called "old age". Unrecognized by religions, it is very probable the source of most of the founders and prophets of modern religions. Yes, it is even mentioned in the bible. Astral projection, shamanic journey, spirit travel, flight of the soul, OBE are all synonymous.

Religions cannot allow it because it is a way for people to have a spirituality without the mediums that religons provide.

OK but astral projection is still part of the New Age regardless of its history. Thank you for your answer that you don't know of any major world religions or adherents who allow or practice New Age techniques respectively.

[Frank Merton]

Seeker79, on 14 February 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Religions cannot allow it because it is a way for people to have a spirituality without the mediums that religons provide.

There is nothing wrong with spirituality without mediums in any religion I know of.  Most people want assistance in achieving spiritual objectives, so I think it is something that develops from demand, not imposition.

[Seeker79]

I believe you, on 14 February 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

OK but astral projection is still part of the New Age regardless of its history. Thank you for your answer that you don't know of any major world religions or adherents who allow or practice New Age techniques respectively.

Some still do it without calling it astral travel. A Christian mystics visions are most likely altered state experiences, induced by the same exact state. Labels will become an issue here. But traversing the spirit world in label is usually forbidden, but when it happens spontaneously, and it does, it is ok, it's just not called "astral travel"

[Seeker79]

Frank Merton, on 14 February 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

There is nothing wrong with spirituality without mediums in any religion I know of.  Most people want assistance in achieving spiritual objectives, so I think it is something that develops from demand, not imposition.

Spirit travel is pointedly forbidden in Christianity. Christ and the bible is the medium for Christians. No way around that one.

Edited by Seeker79, 14 February 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[Leave Britney alone!]

Seeker79, on 14 February 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Some still do it without calling it astral travel. A Christian mystics visions are most likely altered state experiences, induced by the same exact state. Labels will become an issue here. But traversing the spirit world in label is usually forbidden, but when it happens spontaneously, and it does, it is ok, it's just not called "astral travel"

  

Awesome.

I know it was not astral travel per se but are you familiar with the Lady in Blue legend regarding sister Agreda?

[Leave Britney alone!]

BTW I grew up Christian and never heard anything negative about astral during that time which is why I began practicing and achieved the experience (whether I truly left my body is irrelevant since the experience is more important regardless of if it was self-manufactured).

So there must be a number of Christians who have also tried this and other techniques.

[Seeker79]

I believe you, on 14 February 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Awesome.

I know it was not astral travel per se but are you familiar with the Lady in Blue legend regarding sister Agreda?

Yes actually, though I had to google it to remember. The descriptions of her experiences are very much like astral travel and the experiences of a budding shaman. Interestingly enough she was visiting native Americans of course she had to tone it down when the inquisition became interested.

Edited by Seeker79, 14 February 2013 - 11:46 AM.