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The Coming Middle East War


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#46    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:34 PM

Quote

Honey Boo Boo

One of my favorite derails

http://watch.accessh...n/1775687057001


#47    and then

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:39 AM

View PostAsteroidX, on 20 February 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

One of my favorite derails

http://watch.accessh...n/1775687057001
There was a time in America when people would have reviled trailer park trash flaunting their ignorance - today they get paid to do it more than hard working, serious people.  Gotta love America 2013.....
But don't mind me - just another kooky religious type

Edited by and then, 21 February 2013 - 01:40 AM.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#48    Yamato

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:38 PM

View Postand then, on 21 February 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

There was a time in America when people would have reviled trailer park trash flaunting their ignorance - today they get paid to do it more than hard working, serious people.  Gotta love America 2013.....
But don't mind me - just another kooky religious type
Thanks to decades of junk food TV persona like Maury Povich, Jerry Springer and Ricki Lake, we now gotta love what we've become.  Feeding our people the barrel's bottom of humanity for so long, I have nothing but contempt for these figures.

I'm a Christian and I've studied the Bible, Catholic born, raised and confirmed, I've been called a religious nut just for suggesting that I get my moral compass from Jesus Christ, and based on what I know, I don't get where you come up with the Armageddon prophecies at.   If they rebuild the temple in Jerusalem that'll be the prerequisite you should be looking for to believe that these wars of extermination are coming.   Israelis have no interest in doing that, not that they take the New Testament seriously, it's just that it would be an insult to even suggest your beliefs to them in light of all that political support you're so quick to hand out.  Zionists use a history of religious persecution in Europe as an excuse to justify their aggressive nationalistic practices in Israel and criminal activities in Palestine.   But even if we separate the religion out of your position, it doesn't make any sense.  If you believe war is coming, then that's the greatest reason I can think of to join with me and condemn the status quo.   Not just by condemning who one finds politically disagreeable because one is so indoctrinated by propaganda all these years, but also to condemn motivating the people who oppose the oppressive regimes that we support, like Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan to name a few, leading to terrorists attacking us and as a result, going bankrupt on commercial wars that pour the taxpayers' money down the selective gullets the Corporatocracy wants us to.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#49    and then

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:58 PM

View PostYamato, on 21 February 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Thanks to decades of junk food TV persona like Maury Povich, Jerry Springer and Ricki Lake, we now gotta love what we've become.  Feeding our people the barrel's bottom of humanity for so long, I have nothing but contempt for these figures.

I'm a Christian and I've studied the Bible, Catholic born, raised and confirmed, I've been called a religious nut just for suggesting that I get my moral compass from Jesus Christ, and based on what I know, I don't get where you come up with the Armageddon prophecies at.   If they rebuild the temple in Jerusalem that'll be the prerequisite you should be looking for to believe that these wars of extermination are coming.   Israelis have no interest in doing that, not that they take the New Testament seriously, it's just that it would be an insult to even suggest your beliefs to them in light of all that political support you're so quick to hand out.  Zionists use a history of religious persecution in Europe as an excuse to justify their aggressive nationalistic practices in Israel and criminal activities in Palestine.   But even if we separate the religion out of your position, it doesn't make any sense.  If you believe war is coming, then that's the greatest reason I can think of to join with me and condemn the status quo.   Not just by condemning who one finds politically disagreeable because one is so indoctrinated by propaganda all these years, but also to condemn motivating the people who oppose the oppressive regimes that we support, like Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan to name a few, leading to terrorists attacking us and as a result, going bankrupt on commercial wars that pour the taxpayers' money down the selective gullets the Corporatocracy wants us to.
You are confusing my faith in the prophecies with apathy.  It's not that I wouldn't LIKE to change some of the events going on or at least the timing of them, it's that I honestly believe that they cannot be changed - not even delayed.  It all seems quite clear to me but I realize that it seems like so much fantasy to most.  Bottom line is that I will take my stand with Israel because it's what I believe to be the correct thing to do.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#50    Yamato

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 02:30 AM

View Postand then, on 21 February 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

You are confusing my faith in the prophecies with apathy.  It's not that I wouldn't LIKE to change some of the events going on or at least the timing of them, it's that I honestly believe that they cannot be changed - not even delayed.  It all seems quite clear to me but I realize that it seems like so much fantasy to most.  Bottom line is that I will take my stand with Israel because it's what I believe to be the correct thing to do.
Then minimize the suffering of people while you're waiting on the divine inevitable.  It's a mortal sin to senselessly punish the innocent suffering in the meantime.  That is anti-Christ.  Christian?  Bologna.   "Christian", or the way people throw that label around, isn't even recognizable anymore.   People shun the morals of religion, and have good reason to do so when religion has been such a consummate failure of holding up its own professed ideals.  But then a moral vacuum is created where morals supposedly grow on trees, and we're somehow borne with an animal instinct to know the difference between right and wrong, people get braggadocio about all the moral authorities they didn't need to become such great human beings, or they were just lucky enough to have good parents, or whatever.   We have lost our senses, rely on whatever, and our government policies that our people vote for and ask for is one of the most costly reflections of that.   We have the power to feed the world.  And we'd rather rabble rouse about Iran because they want to nationalize their oil and have a strong currency to trade it in.

Edited by Yamato, 22 February 2013 - 02:35 AM.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#51    and then

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 05:34 PM

View PostYamato, on 22 February 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

Then minimize the suffering of people while you're waiting on the divine inevitable.  It's a mortal sin to senselessly punish the innocent suffering in the meantime.  That is anti-Christ.  Christian?  Bologna.   "Christian", or the way people throw that label around, isn't even recognizable anymore.   People shun the morals of religion, and have good reason to do so when religion has been such a consummate failure of holding up its own professed ideals.  But then a moral vacuum is created where morals supposedly grow on trees, and we're somehow borne with an animal instinct to know the difference between right and wrong, people get braggadocio about all the moral authorities they didn't need to become such great human beings, or they were just lucky enough to have good parents, or whatever.   We have lost our senses, rely on whatever, and our government policies that our people vote for and ask for is one of the most costly reflections of that.   We have the power to feed the world.  And we'd rather rabble rouse about Iran because they want to nationalize their oil and have a strong currency to trade it in.
Hold to the morals you choose.  Allow others to do the same - but when they decide they will destroy you if you do not believe as they, then defend yourself.  I find nothing anti Christian in this.  It is not in my power to feed or protect the people of Iran from the policies of their own, "elected" government.  Real evil exists in the world Yam.  You seem to see it in locations that differ from where I see it.  Maybe it's everywhere?  Use the days as wisely as you can, it's what I try to do.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#52    Black Red Devil

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 12:16 AM

I wouldn't define these "wars" the article is referring to as such.  What's been happening in the ME in recent times is more attributable to local and civil unrest.  I don't believe there will be any wars in the ME at all.
Two reasons, 1) the West has too much military might for any conglomerate of Arab-Turkish Confederation and 2) China and Russia would never, EVER, go to war against the West over the ME and why would they when they can share the spoils of what the local region has to offer (mainly oil)?

How have they maintained control all these years?  Simply by keeping the masses ignorant through belief in false ideals (Islamism), through lies, deceptions and chaos (Arab Spring).   Israel and the Saudi's do the rest locally.  Unfortunately (for the West) Iran is the party pooper.  Nukes could constitute a danger to this domination but the West has always the religious trump card (Shia's vs Sunni's) to play in case they do start befriending thy neighbours.

As far as Al Queda goes, they're just a bunch of idealists the West created and let go on the loose to create chaos.

All IMHO of course.

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil, 23 February 2013 - 12:18 AM.

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#53    Yamato

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 06:05 AM

View Postand then, on 22 February 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

Hold to the morals you choose.  Allow others to do the same - but when they decide they will destroy you if you do not believe as they, then defend yourself.  I find nothing anti Christian in this.  It is not in my power to feed or protect the people of Iran from the policies of their own, "elected" government.  Real evil exists in the world Yam.  You seem to see it in locations that differ from where I see it.  Maybe it's everywhere?  Use the days as wisely as you can, it's what I try to do.
What you just described has nothing to do with Iran or the sanctions.   Iran's policies were just fine.  If you can't find a better priority than imposing Zionist bologna on that, you're not paying attention.   Stop looking for trouble and starving people over political tissies we don't need to stick our noses in.

Real evil exists, and it starts in our own mirrors.  Punishing others just for having the desire to do what we do in spades is hypocrisy par excellence.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#54    Ogbin

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 03:12 AM

And Then....

will you please explain why you think the sunni's and shia's are fighting.


#55    regeneratia

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 03:20 AM

Meanwhile, once that war starts, the most enriched will be the international, unprosecuted criminal bankers. But today I hear that Iran is actually prosecuting the criminal bankers. I don't understand why other countries don't follow suit. Bankers are the reasons why there are wars. Bankers are the reasons why you have nothing upon which to retire. Bankers brought this world to the conditions it is in now.
Prosecuting these bankers may well stop the wars from occuring.

Do as much as you can to eliminate banks from your lives.
Ask your states to start their own banks, like N. Dakota has successfully done.

Edited by regeneratia, 24 February 2013 - 03:21 AM.

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#56    shrooma

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 03:29 AM

''i don't know with what weapons WWIII will be fought, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones''
-Albert Einstein-
swiss patent clerk.

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#57    and then

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 04:04 AM

View PostOgbin, on 24 February 2013 - 03:12 AM, said:

And Then....

will you please explain why you think the sunni's and shia's are fighting.
My understanding is basic.  I have read what wiki says and it is supported by other readings I've done over the years.  The conflict is over succession of leadership.  Customs and views of the hadith are different and war has been off and on since the conflict began.

Sunnis believe that Abu Bakr, the father of Muhammad's wife Aisha, was Muhammad's rightful successor and that the method of choosing or electing leaders (Shura) endorsed by the Quran is the consensus of the Ummah, (the Muslim community).

Shiites believe that Muhammad divinely ordained his cousin and son-in-law Ali (the father of his grandsons Hasan ibn Ali and Hussein ibn Ali) in accordance with the command of God to be the next caliph making Ali and his direct descendants Muhammad's successors. Ali was married toFatimah, Muhammad's daughter.

Muhammad's wife Aisha endorsed her father Abu Bakr as the successor to Muhammad. In the Battle of the Camel (656), Aisha opposed her step son-in-law Ali outside the city of Basra because she wanted justice on the perpetrators of the assassination of the previous caliph, Uthman. Aisha's forces were defeated and the Prophet's widow was respectfully escorted back to Medina. Sunnis follow the Rashidun "rightly guided Caliphs", who were the first four caliphs who ruled after the death of Muhammad: Abu Bakr (632-634), Umar ibn al-Khattab (634-644), Usman ibn Affan (644-656), and Ali Ibn Abi Talib (656-661).


  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#58    and then

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 04:13 AM

View Postshrooma, on 24 February 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

''i don't know with what weapons WWIII will be fought, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones''
-Albert Einstein-
swiss patent clerk.
I used to believe that the fear of a nuclear war was over.  But I now believe it is not only real, it is unavoidable.  Attempts to stop proliferation have failed - Iran proves that.  It is only a matter of time before some entity uses such a weapon.  It might be a state or it might be a state sponsored proxy but that won't really matter so much.  The Bible predicts warfare on a scale that would require the use of such weapons (or worse) to kill about 1/3 of humanity at some point.  Putin in Russia is flexing his muscles, Iran is getting closer all the time, North Korea has them and seems to be insane.  Pakistan and India are always on the brink - now add terror groups into the mix and a world that seems oblivious to the real dangers.  When it occurs I think there will be little warning and those who are screaming conspiracy with their last breath will die just like those who saw it coming.  But I also believe that the survivors will learn something and re-create a better world from the ashes.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#59    WHO U KIDDIN

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:08 PM

View Postregeneratia, on 24 February 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

Meanwhile, once that war starts, the most enriched will be the international, unprosecuted criminal bankers. But today I hear that Iran is actually prosecuting the criminal bankers. I don't understand why other countries don't follow suit. Bankers are the reasons why there are wars. Bankers are the reasons why you have nothing upon which to retire. Bankers brought this world to the conditions it is in now.
Prosecuting these bankers may well stop the wars from occuring.

Do as much as you can to eliminate banks from your lives.
Ask your states to start their own banks, like N. Dakota has successfully done.

From General Smedley Butler's 'War is a Racket':

"War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes."

In his penultimate chapter, Butler argues that three steps are necessary to disrupt the war racket:

1. Making war unprofitable. Butler suggests that the owners of capital should be "conscripted" before other citizens are: "It can be smashed effectively only by taking the profit out of war. The only way to smash this racket is to conscript capital and industry and labour before the nation's manhood can be conscripted. … Let the officers and the directors and the high-powered executives of our armament factories and our steel companies and our munitions makers and our ship-builders and our airplane builders and the manufacturers of all other things that provide profit in war time as well as the bankers and the speculators, be conscripted — to get $30 a month, the same wage as the lads in the trenches get"

2. Acts of war to be decided by those who fight it. He also suggests a limited plebiscite to determine if the war is to be fought. Eligible to vote would be those who risk death on the front lines.

3. Limitation of militaries to self-defence. For the United States, Butler recommends that the navy be limited, by law, to within 200 miles of the coastline, and the army restricted to the territorial limits of the country, ensuring that war, if fought, can never be one of aggression.

source: http://en.wikipedia....War_Is_a_Racket


#60    and then

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:09 PM

View PostWHO U KIDDIN, on 24 February 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

From General Smedley Butler's 'War is a Racket':

"War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes."

In his penultimate chapter, Butler argues that three steps are necessary to disrupt the war racket:

1. Making war unprofitable. Butler suggests that the owners of capital should be "conscripted" before other citizens are: "It can be smashed effectively only by taking the profit out of war. The only way to smash this racket is to conscript capital and industry and labour before the nation's manhood can be conscripted. … Let the officers and the directors and the high-powered executives of our armament factories and our steel companies and our munitions makers and our ship-builders and our airplane builders and the manufacturers of all other things that provide profit in war time as well as the bankers and the speculators, be conscripted — to get $30 a month, the same wage as the lads in the trenches get"

2. Acts of war to be decided by those who fight it. He also suggests a limited plebiscite to determine if the war is to be fought. Eligible to vote would be those who risk death on the front lines.

3. Limitation of militaries to self-defence. For the United States, Butler recommends that the navy be limited, by law, to within 200 miles of the coastline, and the army restricted to the territorial limits of the country, ensuring that war, if fought, can never be one of aggression.

source: http://en.wikipedia....War_Is_a_Racket
I can see the rationale for this but I wonder what would become of those we send our military to actually help in times of catastrophe?  Post tsunami Indonesia or Japan come to mind.  Somalian starvation, etc.  The military is the only effective way of carrying out these missions.  And, more to the point, if signal or human intelligence tells us that an enemy is mobilizing against us, is our only option to wait until they come into a kill zone that includes our own territory?  It seems to me that reaching out to hit those who threaten us is the most sensible way to approach warfare.  I think that the greatest damper on aggression would be to actually have the constitution invoked as it is written.  FORCE the congress to make a declaration of war before we commence hostilities - or at least within a very short time frame of their commencement.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...




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