115 replies to this topic

[shrooma]

the eternal me, on 19 February 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

Star of the sea ..... you are welcome....

the rest of you....

don’t make assumptions on what i think of myself ...
or who you may perceive i think i may be...
i was moved to answer ....

this thread is to express thoughts and opinions...

and to take a look at some things in a logical manner...

the eternal me, on 19 February 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

this thread is to express thoughts and opinions...

and to take a look at some things in a logical manner...

_
religion, by it's very nature, excludes logic.
logic is a system of rational thought, designed to take core precepts and strip them down to their bare essences, to see how they function, whereas religion relies on nothing more than blind faith, the willingness to suspend logic, to surrender rational thought to a belief in the assumption of an almighty.
.
but as a way of expressing opinion, it worked.
maybe not the way you expected, but opinions were expressed nonetheless.....

[SpiritWriter]

Actually I would ask him to appear visibly/physically before me, sit and chat with me, teach me a lesson by way of one of his famous sermons that I could write down. Before he left I would give him a hug and a kiss. I hope he would say by your faith, you and everyone you bring to me in prayer has been/ will be healed!

[the L]

Were you married? If so then I understand why you didnt fight against Romans.

[the eternal me]

shrooma, on 19 February 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

_
religion, by it's very nature, excludes logic.
logic is a system of rational thought, designed to take core precepts and strip them down to their bare essences, to see how they function, whereas religion relies on nothing more than blind faith, the willingness to suspend logic, to surrender rational thought to a belief in the assumption of an almighty.
.
but as a way of expressing opinion, it worked.
maybe not the way you expected, but opinions were expressed nonetheless.....

ok... yeah expressing opinions is working great...

but as the matter of faith?

me thinks there is more to it then that...

blind faith is one thing... the belief that what someone else tells you is an absolute truth .... (the basis of religious organisations) ( i don’t mean to ruffle feathers with that statement)

but faith in the individual based on their own experiences is another thing all together.....

there is far more to the universe and the nature of peoples realities then can be summed up in one simple book or discussion..
with each of our own experiences we have our way of seeing it... assimilating the experience if you will...
what we know now as technology would have been considered magic a few centuries ago...
the "faith" that we have in our technology working is based on a knowing of it working...
and you can throw in the argument of "but its a simple machine.. it works because it was made to work like that" ...
to the person that this piece of technology is new to... it seems like magic... till they can understand...

its a simple argument... but it applies equally in both directions...

just because your experience does not encompass what others have experienced... in no way makes their experience any less...
an argument over such little details that are "outside the norm" serve no purpose but to fuel the argument...

there is so much i have seen in the world that at one time people considered "crazy talk" become a part of the common reality..
as the technology to explain it has come into being we are exposed to a wider and more magical world then our ancestors would have dreamed of...

each day there are things happening that expand our world and understanding.....
to the point where we sometimes have to sit and question what we believe in ourselves...

but that comes back to the experiences of the individual...
and the manner in which they try to convey what they have experienced...

we are all products of our own lives...

and what has come across our paths is what we use to relate new experiences to...
when something is outside those things... we seek a manner in which to explain them... in a way that the individual can accept...
weather or not someone else can relate to it?
well that’s back to experience...

what some people see as simple manifestation of intent...
others see as miracles....
2 descriptions of the same event...

nothing more... nothing less...

its just a matter of the language available in the human database that is available...

"the willingness to suspend logic, to surrender rational thought to a belief in the assumption of an almighty"

there are those that follow that model...
but there are those that see things happen that defy logic... and have gone on a search for a rational answer..
and in the western world...
what is past religion is limited... a lot of "new concepts and ways of seeing things" that have been thrown into its own category because it is outside the norm...

the norm being the 2 schools of thought....
religious... and scientific....

and in essence that’s what it has always been ...

an argument of "this exists ... no it doesn’t" ....

then the nitpicking of the details of the argument... which drags it on to the point where many who were interested in what was being discussed walk away...

(holy crap am i long winded)

one argument that comes to mind....
even within the scientific community...

space is empty.... no it isn’t, its full of dark matter...

technology now can give solid evidence of dark matter....
50 years ago?
not so much...

but the battle and arguments for the one topic went on for a long time...
because it was outside the norm...
what was beyond the evidence that was present and detectable at the time...

[the eternal me]

there are things that were considered a matter of faith a few hundred years ago that we now call facts...
and on some of those points...
the argument has turned...

[freetoroam]

i find it sad to think that there are so many who read about jesus and want to follow him, I am lucky to have my father to look up to, I also had friends I could talk to.
When I lost a close friend or family member, friends and family were there to pull together and help each other through the hard times.
I understand if people have no one to talk to or help them through grief so they chose religion. But its a sad state of affairs that so many are without someone alive today who they can be close to.

[Paranoid Android]

freetoroam, on 20 February 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

i find it sad to think that there are so many who read about jesus and want to follow him, I am lucky to have my father to look up to, I also had friends I could talk to.
When I lost a close friend or family member, friends and family were there to pull together and help each other through the hard times.
I understand if people have no one to talk to or help them through grief so they chose religion. But its a sad state of affairs that so many are without someone alive today who they can be close to.

Only lonely people choose Jesus, is that truly what you are trying to say?

[freetoroam]

Paranoid Android, on 20 February 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Only lonely people choose Jesus, is that truly what you are trying to say?

No, there are many people who know a lot of people but can not talk to them.
I just think it is sad that with all the people in the world some can not sit down with a close friend or family member to talk to when times are hard.
But if these people chose religion then thats fine, at least they have found something. But just shows how some humans can not trust their fellow man they have to follow "teachings" from a book...its ok, but not what i would call free will as they follow the same person or entity.

Edited by freetoroam, 20 February 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

I would ask who it was who taught him so badly in Alexandria all those years.

[Frank Merton]

MedicTJ, on 19 February 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Jesus said that Christians would be persecuted more and more as time went on after His resurrection and ascension, up until the time of the end.

Knowing that, I think I'd refine my question.

I think I'd ask Him to take a look at the lot of the posts in this thread, and then ask Him if this is the kind of thing He was talking about.

And I bet I know the answer.

He'd tell you to grow up.

[Iron_Lotus]

i would ask him "tell me why i should give a ****"

[shrooma]

the eternal me, on 19 February 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

(holy crap am i long winded)
.
have you any idea how long it took me to delete the rest of this post??

_


space is empty.... no it isn’t, its full of dark matter...

technology now can give solid evidence of dark matter....
50 years ago?
not so much...

but the battle and arguments for the one topic went on for a long time...
because it was outside the norm...
what was beyond the evidence that was present and detectable at the time...

_
science has't been able to detect dark matter. technology hasn't given ANY solid evidence of it's existence, although physicists working on the particle detector mounted on the outside of the ISS are expected to give an announcement in two weeks' time that they may have found evidence of its existence, to date, there is no evidence whatsoever.

Edited by shrooma, 20 February 2013 - 03:06 PM.

[EllJay]

Iron_Lotus, on 20 February 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

i would ask him "tell me why i should give a ****"

Maybe he will take you on a "Dante-Tour" to convince you why a **** should be given.

[Iron_Lotus]

EllJay, on 20 February 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Maybe he will take you on a "Dante-Tour" to convince you why a **** should be given.

think ill end up staying in the second circle thank you

[the eternal me]

shrooma, on 20 February 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

_
science has't been able to detect dark matter. technology hasn't given ANY solid evidence of it's existence, although physicists working on the particle detector mounted on the outside of the ISS are expected to give an announcement in two weeks' time that they may have found evidence of its existence, to date, there is no evidence whatsoever.

ah... but the argument that so many use ... is that the effects of dark matter in the universe is observable, is the most sound and logical explanation...
hence the quest for the higs boson.... to which the studies at CERN are finding some compelling evidence...