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In my case, it's personal.


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#16    ambelamba

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:19 AM

View PostSimbi Laveau, on 19 February 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

:........
*sighs*
I think many people ,are led down a path,be its religious or spiritual ,and in the end ,they feel disillusioned by what following this path ,did to their life as a whole.
Generally ,it is no ones fault ,and the person who feels wrong ,must pick themselves up,dust themself off ,and start anew .
To feel betrayed,and like you lost part of your life ,is natural ,but....my advice ,is to put it behind you .Dwelling on what is done ,keeps you from moving forward .

I know people who left Israel for this reason . I know people who became atheists,or switched religions . Some did well,some still floundered .
You must realize ,you are much more than any religion you practice ,or job that you do .
We tend to box ourselves in with labels .
You should identify who ,YOU ARE ,not label yourself by anyone else's tenants .

Figure out what your priorities are .Why they are priorities ,and make it your own .
People put down my beliefs ,yadda yadda ,but they make perfect sense ,to me. I need no ones approval ,and I am content this way.

It may take you a while to get to contentment ,but you need to figure it out ,and let past misgivings ,go....

Great post. Thank you.

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#17    shadowhive

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:39 AM

I'm sorry for what happened and I'm glad you're getting back on track.

Jesus' teaching does seem more legalistic than loving. I mean equating the 'thought' of doing something (regardless of how fleeting) with the deed itself, well that's always struck me as both problematic and foolish. The two are not the same by any stretch of the imagination and jesus treating them as such doesn't strike me as 'loving'. Imagine our justice system. If everyonne that thought of doing something, even if they'd never actually do it, was but in jail, everyone would be in prison. (And we'd have no hesitation saying it was because the system got more legalistic, not moving loving.) To me it just seems like the only purpose it serves is to make doubly sure that everyone is guilty of something. it's sad really and you're most likely not the only one that's suffered because of it.

Edited by shadowhive, 19 February 2013 - 10:40 AM.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#18    euroninja

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:43 AM

I'm a sinner but God who knows the future and He also knows what's in my heart. Knowing that I'm a sinner makes me feel humble and compassionate but I'm very thankful to God I can still perform sometimes with the help of medication. It's not always going to be like that you know the older I get with blood pressure. We also get double messages in our society like guys have to be great lovers. Intimacy out of wedlock hasn't ruined my life but I have rough times stories because of it. I also believe true repentence coming from the heart is a grace from God just like being a Christian but I feel in my heart that making love is a natural urge. Jesus is also about love. The lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Jesus before the cross compared to Jesus after crucifiction.

Edited by euroninja, 19 February 2013 - 10:50 AM.

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#19    Paranoid Android

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:52 AM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 19 February 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

The reason why chose this avatar and nickname was to rebel against the la-la land atmosphere of UM forums.

I joined UM because of the UFO subforum. But I got quickly disillusioned. Then I moved down to S&S. Too many self-proclaimed mystics, saints, prophets and whatnot. I felt sick of it and wanted to p*** them off. So I intentionally chose this persona. Having said that, I have noticed that there are many asexuals in here. Something inevitable? Maybe.
I've been on this forum since 2005.  In that time, I may have met two people who could be described as "mystics" (self-proclaimed or otherwise).  I've met several people claiming to be prophets (mostly dealing with end of the world stuff - eg, 21st December, 2012, or perhaps the "God Code" type person), and most of these are ignored and then discarded once the particular date is passed.  I can't say as I recall any "saints" (self-proclaimed or otherwise).  I certainly haven't met that many "asexuals".  I've met several homsexuals and bisexuals, but not any asexuals.

All in all, I struggle to work out what your beef is and why you felt Ron Jeremy (no idea who that is, by the way) was the best way to "p*** them off".  Sounds like there's bigger issues here than just your fundamentalist/literalist upbringing.

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#20    GoSC

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:57 AM

View Postshadowhive, on 19 February 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

I'm sorry for what happened and I'm glad you're getting back on track.

Jesus' teaching does seem more legalistic than loving. I mean equating the 'thought' of doing something (regardless of how fleeting) with the deed itself, well that's always struck me as both problematic and foolish. The two are not the same by any stretch of the imagination and jesus treating them as such doesn't strike me as 'loving'. Imagine our justice system. If everyonne that thought of doing something, even if they'd never actually do it, was but in jail, everyone would be in prison. (And we'd have no hesitation saying it was because the system got more legalistic, not moving loving.) To me it just seems like the only purpose it serves is to make doubly sure that everyone is guilty of something. it's sad really and you're most likely not the only one that's suffered because of it.

I don't believe Jesus was being so literal just illustrating that sin begins and takes root in our thoughts and hearts. Comparatively speaking, Jesus never committed sin in his heart or thoughts. His nature is not our nature as you yourself just testified to.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#21    Timonthy

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:01 AM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 19 February 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

The reason why chose this avatar and nickname was to rebel against the la-la land atmosphere of UM forums.

I joined UM because of the UFO subforum. But I got quickly disillusioned. Then I moved down to S&S. Too many self-proclaimed mystics, saints, prophets and whatnot. I felt sick of it and wanted to p*** them off. So I intentionally chose this persona. Having said that, I have noticed that there are many asexuals in here. Something inevitable? Maybe.
Haha yeah a lot of people will stay anonymous which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But still I don't think there's a lot of room for things of a sexual nature here.

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#22    shadowhive

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:05 AM

View PostB Jenkins, on 19 February 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

I don't believe Jesus was being so literal just illustrating that sin begins and takes root in our thoughts and hearts. Comparatively speaking, Jesus never committed sin in his heart or thoughts. His nature is not our nature as you yourself just testified to.

How do you know he never did anything that could be labelled a sin? The bible not only omits large sections of his life, but was composed largely long after his death. (Which means anything that could be labelled as a sin committed by him could simply be edited out.) I do recall that he got angry more than once and that's labelled as a sin but righteous anger allows him to wiggle out of it.

Second you don't know what he thought, you only know what he said and did which is not the same thing. (And even with that, much is what other people claimed he did and said.) You can no more know what he was thinking than you could know what I'm thinking right now. So agin, he could very easily have thought something that got labelled a sin but you'd have no idea.

Thoughts can lead us to negative actions, but (and here's the important part) thinking of doing a bad thing and doing it should never be considered as being the same thing. Most people have probably thought of killing or harming another person when they were angry, however when the anger subsides they're glad they didn't and the thought is discarded. But if you kill a person, well, that's different isn't it? It's so different it's obvious.

Edited by shadowhive, 19 February 2013 - 11:07 AM.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#23    GoSC

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:12 AM

View Postshadowhive, on 19 February 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

How do you know he never did anything that could be labelled a sin? The bible not only omits large sections of his life, but was composed largely long after his death. (Which means anything that could be labelled as a sin committed by him could simply be edited out.) I do recall that he got angry more than once and that's labelled as a sin but righteous anger allows him to wiggle out of it.

Second you don't know what he thought, you only know what he said and did which is not the same thing. (And even with that, much is what other people claimed he did and said.) You can no more know what he was thinking than you could know what I'm thinking right now. So agin, he could very easily have thought something that got labelled a sin but you'd have no idea.

Thoughts can lead us to negative actions, but (and here's the important part) thinking of doing a bad thing and doing it should never be considered as being the same thing. Most people have probably thought of killing or harming another person when they were angry, however when the anger subsides they're glad they didn't and the thought is discarded. But if you kill a person, well, that's different isn't it? It's so different it's obvious.

His anger was addressed to those that turned his church into their own personal gains. They were banking off of God. Some things have never changed.

But I  hold the scriptures as true that Jesus had pure thoughts only and descriptively asexual IMO.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#24    shadowhive

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:21 AM

View PostB Jenkins, on 19 February 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

His anger was addressed to those that turned his church into their own personal gains. They were banking off of God. Some things have never changed.

But I  hold the scriptures as true that Jesus had pure thoughts only and descriptively asexual IMO.

That's true, some things have never changed, but religion seems to have a built in function for abuse. Probably due to absurd nature and number of rules enshrined within it.

That's what it'd like you to think.

However real human beings aren't 'pure' all the time and have a built in sexual component. Denying that or expecting unrealistic expectations simply isn't benefitting anyone anywhere. I fail to see what the use is of expecting everyone to be 'pure' or asexual, other than setting them up to fail when they so much as think of something 'impure' or sexual.

I just don't see the value in treating humanity in such a negative way.

Edited by shadowhive, 19 February 2013 - 11:23 AM.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#25    Sean93

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:37 AM

This happens to a lot of people, fearfully following a god or religion and feeling like crap after a while. t Happened to me when I was a kid and there's several years of my teenage times I'll never get back, but it was partially my own fault for being an idiot kid and fearing punishment The only thing that ever peeves me about it is the fact that while people were out doing that stuff that teenagers do, I was locked away and scared ****less of god to the point where I can admit I became a bitter fellow.

All I can say is that you might as well build your life back in whatever way you can, it may take time (I only recently got out of that hellhole myself, with some nasty scars too) Rome wasn't built in a day right?

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#26    J. K.

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 02:48 PM

Your words sound like those I have heard from people who have escaped from churches where the pastor's word was above God's word, and the pastor often had goals which were markedly different from God's goals.  Unfortunately, it's easy to get caught up in these types of "cults", because they preach with such conviction and sincerity that you just know they must be right!  It's only after you get indoctrinated that you find out these preachers are instead making idols of themselves.

The really sad part is that people who escape from these situations tend to blame God rather than blaming the self-serving pastor. This is akin to hating the Nike company because the shoes you bought from some guy selling shoes out of his truck in a parking lot turned out to be third-rate knock-offs.

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#27    Jessica Christ

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:21 PM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 19 February 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

Anybody in here whose life was wrecked by following the scriptural teachings? Count me in.

Jesus said that if you lust after a woman you are committing adultery. Adultery is a sin. And wage of sin is death. Or, His judgment of 'love' is quick and swift. My life was driven by fear and reverence of God. God was my lord, master, and shogun.  And following that teaching wrecked my life. It destroyed my career and everything. For last ten years I've been trying to rebuild my life from the ground. But once shattered the life won't be put back together easily.

Maybe it's my prejudice but I noticed that many of you on the forums have really, really minimal or non-existent libido. Probably I am an exception in here. And that Seattle rocker guy, too. I am not saying that promiscuity is good. It's not necessarily toxic, but it will make you desensitized and jaded ending up making yourself dull to the happiness of relationships and such.

(I am not that young. But I am very youthful for my age and except for the diabetes (caused by bad medicine) I am doing OK. 5'10" and 185 lbs with minimal body fat ratio. I avoid sweets and do not eat candies, unless I get dizzy and hungry from daily two-hour hiking. I am not bad looking either. But I am socially retarded. Well, it's more like I became withdrawn over years. Although my avatar is THAT guy Ron Jeremy, he and I have virtually nothing in common. I am a youthful-looking Asian with BFA in art. I served in the military, which gave me some perspective. And...I can count number of the girlfriends I slept with my one hand. But that's just because of my stoic nature and lack of social skills.)

But, seriously my hatred toward Jesus is very personal. His teaching wrecked my life. How can I get it back? I lost my career and everything. And it's all caused by faithful to that teaching by Jesus. I tried to purge out lust from my mind to please God and well, my mind was wrecked and I got into a major meltdown. Who will pay for my damage? Who will avenge my misfortune?

Thank you for your honesty.

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#28    Star of the Sea

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:08 PM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 19 February 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

Anybody in here whose life was wrecked by following the scriptural teachings? Count me in.

Jesus said that if you lust after a woman you are committing adultery. Adultery is a sin. And wage of sin is death. Or, His judgment of 'love' is quick and swift. My life was driven by fear and reverence of God. God was my lord, master, and shogun.  And following that teaching wrecked my life. It destroyed my career and everything. For last ten years I've been trying to rebuild my life from the ground. But once shattered the life won't be put back together easily.

Maybe it's my prejudice but I noticed that many of you on the forums have really, really minimal or non-existent libido. Probably I am an exception in here. And that Seattle rocker guy, too. I am not saying that promiscuity is good. It's not necessarily toxic, but it will make you desensitized and jaded ending up making yourself dull to the happiness of relationships and such.

(I am not that young. But I am very youthful for my age and except for the diabetes (caused by bad medicine) I am doing OK. 5'10" and 185 lbs with minimal body fat ratio. I avoid sweets and do not eat candies, unless I get dizzy and hungry from daily two-hour hiking. I am not bad looking either. But I am socially retarded. Well, it's more like I became withdrawn over years. Although my avatar is THAT guy Ron Jeremy, he and I have virtually nothing in common. I am a youthful-looking Asian with BFA in art. I served in the military, which gave me some perspective. And...I can count number of the girlfriends I slept with my one hand. But that's just because of my stoic nature and lack of social skills.)

But, seriously my hatred toward Jesus is very personal. His teaching wrecked my life. How can I get it back? I lost my career and everything. And it's all caused by faithful to that teaching by Jesus. I tried to purge out lust from my mind to please God and well, my mind was wrecked and I got into a major meltdown. Who will pay for my damage? Who will avenge my misfortune?

Ron, I hope you don't mind me saying this... but I honestly think you need to get a good Psychotherapist to help you with your issues. I have a hunch Jesus isn't  just your only problem but a 'by product' off deeper issues. I could be wrong here Ron, but you maybe directing your anger in the wrong direction. Wishing you peace for the future.

Edited by Star of the Sea, 19 February 2013 - 06:12 PM.

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#29    White Crane Feather

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 09:27 PM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 19 February 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

Anybody in here whose life was wrecked by following the scriptural teachings? Count me in.

Jesus said that if you lust after a woman you are committing adultery. Adultery is a sin. And wage of sin is death. Or, His judgment of 'love' is quick and swift. My life was driven by fear and reverence of God. God was my lord, master, and shogun.  And following that teaching wrecked my life. It destroyed my career and everything. For last ten years I've been trying to rebuild my life from the ground. But once shattered the life won't be put back together easily.

Maybe it's my prejudice but I noticed that many of you on the forums have really, really minimal or non-existent libido. Probably I am an exception in here. And that Seattle rocker guy, too. I am not saying that promiscuity is good. It's not necessarily toxic, but it will make you desensitized and jaded ending up making yourself dull to the happiness of relationships and such.

(I am not that young. But I am very youthful for my age and except for the diabetes (caused by bad medicine) I am doing OK. 5'10" and 185 lbs with minimal body fat ratio. I avoid sweets and do not eat candies, unless I get dizzy and hungry from daily two-hour hiking. I am not bad looking either. But I am socially retarded. Well, it's more like I became withdrawn over years. Although my avatar is THAT guy Ron Jeremy, he and I have virtually nothing in common. I am a youthful-looking Asian with BFA in art. I served in the military, which gave me some perspective. And...I can count number of the girlfriends I slept with my one hand. But that's just because of my stoic nature and lack of social skills.)

But, seriously my hatred toward Jesus is very personal. His teaching wrecked my life. How can I get it back? I lost my career and everything. And it's all caused by faithful to that teaching by Jesus. I tried to purge out lust from my mind to please God and well, my mind was wrecked and I got into a major meltdown. Who will pay for my damage? Who will avenge my misfortune?
You will and  the responsibility is your and yours alone.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#30    IamsSon

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 06:53 PM

View PostRon Jeremy, on 19 February 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

Anybody in here whose life was wrecked by following the scriptural teachings? Count me in.

Jesus said that if you lust after a woman you are committing adultery. Adultery is a sin. And wage of sin is death. Or, His judgment of 'love' is quick and swift. My life was driven by fear and reverence of God. God was my lord, master, and shogun.  And following that teaching wrecked my life. It destroyed my career and everything. For last ten years I've been trying to rebuild my life from the ground. But once shattered the life won't be put back together easily.

Maybe it's my prejudice but I noticed that many of you on the forums have really, really minimal or non-existent libido. Probably I am an exception in here. And that Seattle rocker guy, too. I am not saying that promiscuity is good. It's not necessarily toxic, but it will make you desensitized and jaded ending up making yourself dull to the happiness of relationships and such.

(I am not that young. But I am very youthful for my age and except for the diabetes (caused by bad medicine) I am doing OK. 5'10" and 185 lbs with minimal body fat ratio. I avoid sweets and do not eat candies, unless I get dizzy and hungry from daily two-hour hiking. I am not bad looking either. But I am socially retarded. Well, it's more like I became withdrawn over years. Although my avatar is THAT guy Ron Jeremy, he and I have virtually nothing in common. I am a youthful-looking Asian with BFA in art. I served in the military, which gave me some perspective. And...I can count number of the girlfriends I slept with my one hand. But that's just because of my stoic nature and lack of social skills.)

But, seriously my hatred toward Jesus is very personal. His teaching wrecked my life. How can I get it back? I lost my career and everything. And it's all caused by faithful to that teaching by Jesus. I tried to purge out lust from my mind to please God and well, my mind was wrecked and I got into a major meltdown. Who will pay for my damage? Who will avenge my misfortune?

Ron, I'm glad that you are in the process of rebuilding your life, that can't possibly be an easy process and I wish you success in this.

However, I would think that blaming others for your mistakes will only hinder your attempt at psychological rebuilding.

Unless you only read that particular passage of Scripture, then you know Jesus basically taught that there was only one way to God, and that was through Him.  He highlighted this teaching by pointing out that He did not come to abolish "The Law" but to fulfill it, and by regularly pointing out that human nature inevitably led to sin.  There was NO WAY you were ever going to avoid receiving sin's wage on your own, and Jesus definitely did not expect you to which is why He paid the price and made this payment a GIFT to you, because a gift is received with no expectation of payment.

If you drove yourself to ruin by focusing on your inability/unwillingness to resist what you knew to be sin, you must see that is on you, not on God/Jesus, since He never expected you would be able to do so on your own.

Also, the focus on adultery is yours, not God's.  You were due to receive sin's wage for the first time you lied to your mom, knowing you were doing something wrong, or the first time you hit your little sister because you wanted to hurt her.  I'm sure, you like me and like every other human on the planet, had sinned waaay before you ever noticed that there was something about the way a girl looked that was interesting to you in a new way.

As I said, I wish you success in your journey to rebuilding yourself, but I think you're sabotaging yourself by trying to place the blame outside of yourself.

Edited by IamsSon, 01 March 2013 - 06:54 PM.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881




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