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Can god make a rock to big for him to left


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#61    J. K.

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 06:08 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 22 February 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Pointless. What is there to know once one has demonstrated that the idea is leads to logical contradictions and therefore is false.

A god is, by definition, a supreme being, which means that there are aspects of a god that are beyond human understanding.

Do you have a four-dimensional solid that you can show me?

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#62    Ehrman Pagels 1

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:00 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 22 February 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Why did god create Somone who has a miserable painful life and knew of but would never accept Christ only to die a spiritual death or be tortured in hell. Omnipotence dictates that god new very well that the only experience of this being would be misery. Why create such a thing?
Who would this person be? Would that be you? You're looking at it from a human being's perspective. You also have to take into account free will, choices, the nature of our eternal soul, eternity, itself, and using finite language to describe infinite, abstract concepts and truths.


#63    Ehrman Pagels 1

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:22 AM

View PostJ. K., on 22 February 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

Being able to draw logical conclusions about something does not bring total understanding of that thing.  There will be characteristics of it that are indescribable from our point-of-view.  If you claim to understand everything about God, that would make you more than God yourself.
Agreed. It's like the nature of unconditional love. It's not what most people make it out to be. Even those people who received an insight about its nature, I'm sure they'll also say that there's more to unconditional love than greets the heart and mind. The strange thing about getting older is the fact that things slip away and disappear from one's mind. The mind is the slayer of the soul. To have the gull to double guess God is absolutely absurd.

"Jesus said to them, If you were blind, you should have no sin: but now you say, We see; therefore your sin remains." (John 9:41)


Peace.


#64    Rlyeh

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:43 AM

View PostJ. K., on 22 February 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

A god is, by definition, a supreme being, which means that there are aspects of a god that are beyond human understanding.
You're invoking human understanding and then throwing it out. May aswell just say "I don't know, God did it"

Quote

Do you have a four-dimensional solid that you can show me?
A nonsensical question.


#65    J. K.

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:10 PM

No, I'm just pointing out that humans don't know everything there is to know.  Scientist don't understand everything about the natural universe.  If they had all the answers, then there would be no need for further research.  There are still things in the universe that are beyond our understanding, and probably beyond our ability to understand.  The challenge remains:  show me a four-dimensional solid object.

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#66    Frank Merton

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:19 PM

I dunno -- resorting to the fact that we humans are finite to get around a logical proof strikes me as a cop-out.  On that basis believe anything at all.  I would prefer to have a rational basis for my opinions.


#67    Rlyeh

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:57 PM

View PostJ. K., on 28 February 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

No, I'm just pointing out that humans don't know everything there is to know.  Scientist don't understand everything about the natural universe.  If they had all the answers, then there would be no need for further research.  There are still things in the universe that are beyond our understanding, and probably beyond our ability to understand.  The challenge remains:  show me a four-dimensional solid object.
You don't need to know everything to point out an impossibility. Your challenge is nonsense.


#68    White Crane Feather

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:03 PM

View Postbraveone2u, on 28 February 2013 - 02:00 AM, said:

Who would this person be? Would that be you? You're looking at it from a human being's perspective. You also have to take into account free will, choices, the nature of our eternal soul, eternity, itself, and using finite language to describe infinite, abstract concepts and truths.
Oh I don't know.... Mabey the African teenager going blind from worms in his eyes that never had a good meal in is life, was forced to fight for local rebels, that rejected the missionary in favor of his traditional religion. It would seem that an omniscient god would have known all this ahead of time, even designed it that way. Gods will and all. Or what about that little 3 year old  girl who's parents strapped her to a chair with a hole in it to poop in and left her in a basement for 10 years until Somone found her. They where kind enough to give her food and water but 10 years of isolation ruined her mind. She never regained any sort of normal function. Things like this shake my faith in any kind of providence.

No I don't think god is omniscient.

Yes we cannot possibly fathom an eternal being and know the mind of god. But this is what men try to do isn't it. Through our bibles and scriptures other men try to tell others about the mind of god that really cannot even be spoken about because even just a little information about a truely eternal god cannot even fit in our skulls. There would not be enough brain matter to even begin to understand.

Edited by Seeker79, 28 February 2013 - 03:04 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#69    J. K.

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:38 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 28 February 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

I dunno -- resorting to the fact that we humans are finite to get around a logical proof strikes me as a cop-out.  On that basis believe anything at all.  I would prefer to have a rational basis for my opinions.


Humans are finite.  Does rational logic provide an explanation for everything yet?  What is beyond the edge of the universe?  What existed before the Big Bang?

View PostRlyeh, on 28 February 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

You don't need to know everything to point out an impossibility. Your challenge is nonsense.


Tell me why a four-dimensional solid is an impossibility.

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#70    Rlyeh

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:45 PM

View PostJ. K., on 28 February 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Tell me why a four-dimensional solid is an impossibility.
Solid doesn't really apply to the temporal dimension.
However if you mean a geometric shape, http://mathworld.wol.../Hypercube.html


#71    J. K.

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:10 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 28 February 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Solid doesn't really apply to the temporal dimension.
However if you mean a geometric shape, http://mathworld.wol.../Hypercube.html

The link you provided shows "a projection of the tesseract in three-space", not the actual object itself.  If you prefer to avoid four-space, then show me a five-space or a six-space solid.

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#72    Ehrman Pagels 1

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:03 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 28 February 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

Oh I don't know.... Mabey the African teenager going blind from worms in his eyes that never had a good meal in is life, was forced to fight for local rebels, that rejected the missionary in favor of his traditional religion. It would seem that an omniscient god would have known all this ahead of time, even designed it that way. Gods will and all. Or what about that little 3 year old  girl who's parents strapped her to a chair with a hole in it to poop in and left her in a basement for 10 years until Somone found her. They where kind enough to give her food and water but 10 years of isolation ruined her mind. She never regained any sort of normal function. Things like this shake my faith in any kind of providence.

No I don't think god is omniscient.

Yes we cannot possibly fathom an eternal being and know the mind of god. But this is what men try to do isn't it. Through our bibles and scriptures other men try to tell others about the mind of god that really cannot even be spoken about because even just a little information about a truely eternal god cannot even fit in our skulls. There would not be enough brain matter to even begin to understand.
Hi Seeker79,

I can sympathize because my world has been rocked to its foundation. The interesting about my situation is that it was what I had asked for during my meditation teacher/yogi years: to find my answers. The main deity of that lineage was Rudra, the "wild aspect" of Shiva. It's curious enough that Shiva's the "destroyer." A "wild aspect"? I was really asking for it, to put it that way. My belief system was completely put to the test. Nevertheless, I've learned to accept, surrender...and be grateful, in spite of EVERYTHING.

Why did I go back to my Christian root?? I'm with Jesus Christ today mainly because of the promise of paradise with a "tangible" God, not an invisible one. In our culture, death is the ultimate test. Most people have a way to reinvent themselves (or just to survive), regardless of the tragedies they go through. As long as we are alive, the show must go on; I feel that it's in my system, in my conscience, and I've never met one without it, unless one has some kind of extreme mental condition, I suppose.

To cut a long story short, my afterlife in the Void changed everything for me, but it took 12 more years and many hardships for me to go back to my Christian root. In the end, I believe that the Holy Spirit was guiding me through it all, since the day one. Why do I believe this? I feel deep down that I have made a pact with Jesus Christ/God a long time ago, and "being shaken" was a way back. Here's the link to read about my afterlife posts:


http://www.unexplain...howtopic=243158

Thank you for sharing, Seeker79.

Peace.

Paul


#73    Rlyeh

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:02 AM

View PostJ. K., on 28 February 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

The link you provided shows "a projection of the tesseract in three-space", not the actual object itself.  If you prefer to avoid four-space, then show me a five-space or a six-space solid.
I haven't avoided anything, you've ignored the point it is impossible.

Edited by Rlyeh, 01 March 2013 - 05:06 AM.


#74    Yamato

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:11 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 20 February 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

Not only that but Jesus (God?) needed help moving the cross the romans made.
So, you accept the Biblical account.

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#75    Rlyeh

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:27 AM

View PostYamato, on 01 March 2013 - 05:11 AM, said:

So, you accept the Biblical account.
Gee I must also accept the myths of Hercules and Zeus as I've mentioned them in the past.

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