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Can god make a rock to big for him to left


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#76    Jinxdom

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 12:13 PM

Actually God can create a rock that he cannot lift. He just had to make his mind first and place the rock there. This is how he ended up giving himself omniscience, because if you are going to think you better do it right. Now since God is absolutely smart he realized that he would need both have two God's to be to lift the rock of One God. So being all powerful copied himself in to his mind. Now there are two God's at two different places all of the sharing the same characteristic. Omnipresence.  Since God has no sense of judgement, he can never come to the conclusion that would allow his. Then he made himself omnibenevolent  so he could figure out what he is doing wrong.  

So basically if you use your power without thinking, seeing everything, and judgement you can make a universe full of problems, :P


#77    and then

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 12:42 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 20 February 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Boy this sort of jargon really strengthens my conviction that Christianity is utterly irrational.  Are you guys talking with a straight face?
I don't think rationality (carnal, human) is a necessity for a human to have faith.  For me, faith is an act of will and an admission that I am finite, human, flawed and do not grasp all things so perfectly that I can ever expect to understand my Creator.  The best I can do is TRY to live by His rules - also an act of faith - and do my best not to hurt others intentionally.  Ultimately, if I am deluded and there is no God then when I pass from this existence I will never know my error.  I will have lived in a way that gave me fulfillment and a degree of peace and I think that most humans would be content with that outcome.  Indeed, that way is the only one that could ever produce peace and productive coexistence among people.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#78    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:07 PM

Faith has always seemed to be to be something of a dirty trick religions play on people.  They tell you faith is a gift God gives you and all you have to do is accept it.  Boy do you feel bad if you don't believe when you hear that -- from God no less -- when you doubt, and you are bound to doubt.  So instead of feeling guilty and creepy-crawly evil, you decide you gotta find a way to believe.  And then lo and behold the guilt lifts, not like you had anything to be guilty for in the first place, but the trick had you thinking you did.

Pascal's Wager (various forms of why not believe -- it won't harm me and maybe I'll be better off) is often the rational resorted to in order to keep from rejecting "God's gift."


#79    J. K.

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:46 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 01 March 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

I haven't avoided anything, you've ignored the point it is impossible.

Rather than ignoring the point, I am making a point: it is impossible to fully demonstrate a fiveD object in only three dimensions, but that doesn't mean the object doesn't exist.  Likewise, a spiritual being cannot be totally represented in a physical dimension without limitations.

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#80    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:53 PM

Did you ever hear of a non sequitur.  I read what you just posted several times and it just does not follow.  I think you are reaching for straws.


#81    Rlyeh

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:39 PM

View PostJ. K., on 01 March 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

Rather than ignoring the point, I am making a point: it is impossible to fully demonstrate a fiveD object in only three dimensions, but that doesn't mean the object doesn't exist.  Likewise, a spiritual being cannot be totally represented in a physical dimension without limitations.
As I pointed out before the 4th dimension is time. A solid object in the 4th dimension makes no sense.
But you're right you've made a point, you have selective reading. Asinine challenges are only proof of the requesters ignorance.

Edited by Rlyeh, 01 March 2013 - 03:41 PM.


#82    danielost

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 03:51 PM

Stoo the name calling.  String thoery sees eleven dimentions none of them is time.  Time is outside physical dimensions.  The bible indicates that time isn't real or is relitive.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#83    Rlyeh

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:00 PM

View Postdanielost, on 01 March 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

Stoo the name calling.  String thoery sees eleven dimentions none of them is time.
You sure about that? Last time I checked it accepted the standard space-time concept of relativity, wait it still does. Many of the other dimensions are at extremely small scales.
I stick to my original statement, a solid 4 or 5 dimensional object is nonsense.

BTW no one has been called any names.

Edited by Rlyeh, 01 March 2013 - 04:04 PM.


#84    and then

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:06 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 01 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Faith has always seemed to be to be something of a dirty trick religions play on people.  They tell you faith is a gift God gives you and all you have to do is accept it.  Boy do you feel bad if you don't believe when you hear that -- from God no less -- when you doubt, and you are bound to doubt.  So instead of feeling guilty and creepy-crawly evil, you decide you gotta find a way to believe.  And then lo and behold the guilt lifts, not like you had anything to be guilty for in the first place, but the trick had you thinking you did.

Pascal's Wager (various forms of why not believe -- it won't harm me and maybe I'll be better off) is often the rational resorted to in order to keep from rejecting "God's gift."
I had never heard of this wager :)   So I guess Pascal had me figured out - with the exception that I realize that this life really is more than being about me.  My happiness comes in great measure from how I interact with others.  And believing in God only causes me to treat them all with more care.  There is no negative - unless one has such a pride of intellect that they cannot accept that life and the universe is and will remain essentially a mystery.  Mankind has exploded with knowledge in the past few decades but we don't even know which questions to begin to ask, let alone their answers, and it will be the work of millennia to change that.  Just my 2c

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#85    third_eye

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:11 PM

Put a beggar in Emperor's clothes, does that make him the Emperor ?

No

But 'we' will make him Emperor

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' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
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#86    J. K.

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:24 PM

If I am guilty of selective reading, it is because I employ selective thinking.  I choose to believe that which makes the most sense to me, and that which is manifested as truth in my life.  You are also free to choose your own beliefs.  I will maintain my statement in post # 79; I cannot state it more simply.

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#87    Rlyeh

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:33 PM

View PostJ. K., on 01 March 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

If I am guilty of selective reading, it is because I employ selective thinking.  I choose to believe that which makes the most sense to me, and that which is manifested as truth in my life.  You are also free to choose your own beliefs.  I will maintain my statement in post # 79; I cannot state it more simply.
Ok, you provide a 4 dimensional solid object if you believe it then


#88    danielost

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:03 PM

Time is relative.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#89    J. K.

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:22 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 01 March 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

Ok, you provide a 4 dimensional solid object if you believe it then

As you stated earlier, it is impossible to do so in our dimension.  You can draw a representation of a 3D cube on 2D paper, but it's only a representation and is not the actual object.  Any object can only be fully manifested in its own dimension, not in a lower dimension.  In relation to the OP, the rock question is invalid because God, who exists in a higher dimension than ours, cannot be fully manifested in our dimension.

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#90    Rlyeh

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:26 PM

View PostJ. K., on 01 March 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

As you stated earlier, it is impossible to do so in our dimension.  You can draw a representation of a 3D cube on 2D paper, but it's only a representation and is not the actual object.  Any object can only be fully manifested in its own dimension, not in a lower dimension.  In relation to the OP, the rock question is invalid because God, who exists in a higher dimension than ours, cannot be fully manifested in our dimension.
So which dimension does God exist in?





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