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Pack of hunting hounds attack fox on road


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#61    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:50 PM

View Postxsas, on 26 February 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

I don’t know what the laws are about hunting boars where you live, it may well be legal, fox hunting here isn’t, just the same way we can’t chop the hand of a thief like they do in the Middle east or stone a woman to death in the street because she smiled at or was seen with another man.
  • I have no problem with a farmer killing a fox to protect his livestock.
  • I have no problem with a relative killing a fox to protect their child.
  • I have no problem with an individual killing a fox to protect themselves.
I do have a problem with a groups of organised Hooray Henry’s dresses in funny cloths hunting down every fox they see and slaughtering it as a pastime. Most of these people are not effected by foxes, it is just a callous after school activity to them.

Tell me why the Prime minister need to do this as a pastime? Do you think his chickens are killed or they attack his geese?


As stated before, the gentry have hunted foxes for hundreds of years,. This is a hangover from when they were the major land holders of the country and would hunt the foxes that were affecting the yeild of the farmers on their estates. The fact that the decendants of the gentry still want to keep to their tradition is not a reason to make fun of them.

Is it callous or noble that they want to protect farmers from the impact of foxes? depends on your personal outlook.

I doubt that a farmer wants to spend his nights waiting up with a gun when he has to get up a 5am every day. I think a much more successful way of ensuring foxes are killed would be to have an organised hunt.


So, to summerize the arguement against the hunt using dogs i have listed the opinions below:

1) People are not against protecting farmers livelihood.
2) People are not against animals killing in their natural evolutionary way
3) People are not against gentry riding horses with their dogs.

4) Put them together and its the worst thing humanity has ever done.


#62    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:58 PM

View Postxsas, on 26 February 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:


I do have a problem with a groups of organised Hooray Henry’s dresses in funny cloths hunting down every fox they see and slaughtering it as a pastime. Most of these people are not effected by foxes, it is just a callous after school activity to them.


Replace the word foxes with possums and you could be talking about me. Possums are responsible for killing the native plant and bird populations in my country, as well as damaging forestry plantations. Does that effect me personally? No. Does that mean the government wants we to stop killing them? No.  Do environmentalists or farmers encourage people to kill possums and rabbits? Absolutely. Do i enjoy it? Not particulary, but i do my bit.

Do you have an issue with this, or would i have to dress up funny and ride on a horse for you to be offended?


#63    Michelle

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:12 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 February 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

Replace the word foxes with possums and you could be talking about me. Possums are responsible for killing the native plant and bird populations in my country, as well as damaging forestry plantations. Does that effect me personally? No. Does that mean the government wants we to stop killing them? No.  Do environmentalists or farmers encourage people to kill possums and rabbits? Absolutely. Do i enjoy it? Not particulary, but i do my bit.

Do you have an issue with this, or would i have to dress up funny and ride on a horse for you to be offended?

We have a problem with deer and very few people have issues with yearly hunts. The reason is because they aren't chased down and torn to pieces while pompous idiots perch on horses cheering it on. It is done humanely and cleanly with as little pain to the deer as possible.

Edited by Michelle, 26 February 2013 - 10:13 PM.


#64    MoorWalks

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:13 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 February 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:


Replace the word foxes with possums and you could be talking about me. Possums are responsible for killing the native plant and bird populations in my country, as well as damaging forestry plantations. Does that effect me personally? No. Does that mean the government wants we to stop killing them? No.  Do environmentalists or farmers encourage people to kill possums and rabbits? Absolutely. Do i enjoy it? Not particulary, but i do my bit.

Do you have an issue with this, or would i have to dress up funny and ride on a horse for you to be offended?

I have an issue with any illegal organised hunts on any animal. Is it illegal to organise a hunt and kill possums where you live.

Do you gather with your friends on Sundays drinking wine, dessed in fancy dress and chase them across the countryside with packs of dogs, until they are cornered in front of passers by, who watch them being torn apart?

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#65    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:23 PM

View PostMichelle, on 26 February 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

We have a problem with deer and very few people have issues with yearly hunts. The reason is because they aren't chased down and torn to pieces while pompous idiots perch on horses cheering it on. It is done humanely and cleanly with as little pain to the deer as possible.

How do you humanely kill a fox? Stay up all night with a shotgun? Its not very practical. Bait and trap? Maybe, i am not sure if its legal or even possible. It may not be the most humane, but you cannot argue that it is not the most effective form of pest control.

Dogs can/will kill lambs and sheep in a very inhumane way when they get into a field, without anyone cheering them on. It happens in nature all the time. Humans are just exploiting nature as we do in many cases around the world. Animals suffer everyday. As stated before, the fox that is tormented will itself kill other animals for nothing but the "fun" of it (referred to as a frenzy).

Edited by Professor Buzzkill, 26 February 2013 - 10:31 PM.


#66    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:30 PM

View Postxsas, on 26 February 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

I have an issue with any illegal organised hunts on any animal. Is it illegal to organise a hunt and kill possums where you live.

Do you gather with your friends on Sundays drinking wine, dessed in fancy dress and chase them across the countryside with packs of dogs, until they are cornered in front of passers by, who watch them being torn apart?

No it is not illegal. No i do not drink while handling firearms. No i do not dress up.
Posted Image

A few pictures like these might change public opinion, but i doubt it.


#67    Michelle

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:42 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 February 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

How do you humanely kill a fox? Stay up all night with a shotgun? Its not very practical. Bait and trap? Maybe, i am not sure if its legal or even possible. It may not be the most humane, but you cannot argue that it is the most effective form of pest control.

Dogs can/will kill lambs and sheep in a very inhumane way when they get into a field, without anyone cheering them on. It happens in nature all the time. Humans are just exploiting nature as we do in many cases around the world. Animals suffer everyday. As stated before, the fox that is tormented will itself kill other animals for nothing but the "fun" of it (referred to as a frenzy).

What's wrong with hunters staying up all night? That is exactly what deer hunters do. It's a heck of a lot more sporting than putting your dogs out after them to rip them apart. They sit in blinds for hours waiting for a deer to come along and then they shoot it. There are enough people that like to hunt that farmers wouldn't have to take time away from their livelyhoods to deal with it. Real fox hunters could get a pretty penny for the pelts they sold too.

What animlas do has nothing to do with this. We aren't wild animals and we shouldn't base our principles on what a they will do. They often kill their babies that are born deformed, but you don't see civilized people doing that either.

Edited by Michelle, 26 February 2013 - 10:44 PM.


#68    jules99

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:45 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 February 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:


Dogs can/will kill lambs and sheep in a very inhumane way when they get into a field, without anyone cheering them on. It happens in nature all the time. Humans are just exploiting nature as we do in many cases around the world. Animals suffer everyday. As stated before, the fox that is tormented will itself kill other animals for nothing but the "fun" of it (referred to as a frenzy).


"in·hu·mane
[in-hyoo-meyn or, often, -yoo-]

adjective
not humane; lacking humanity, kindness, compassion, etc."

Do we know better than dogs and foxes...we have a word describing  the behavior, yet allow ourselves to sink to or below to the same level, using whatever means to justify the enjoyment of the act..


#69    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:58 PM

View PostMichelle, on 26 February 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

What's wrong with hunters staying up all night? That is exactly what deer hunters do. It's a heck of a lot more sporting than putting your dogs out after them to rip them apart. They sit in blinds for hours waiting for a deer to come along and then they shoot it. There are enough people that like to hunt that farmers wouldn't have to take time away from their livelyhoods to deal with it. Real fox hunters could get a pretty penny for the pelts they sold too.

What animlas do has nothing to do with this. We aren't wild animals and we shouldn't base our principles on what a they will do. They often kill their babies that are born deformed, but you don't see civilized people doing that either.

What if it wasn't referred to as a hunt, but as pest control?

Who is forcing the dogs to torture the fox to death? What human told them to do it? or do they do it instinctively? And yes, we abort babies that have obvious defects.


#70    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:59 PM

View Postjules99, on 26 February 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

"in·hu·mane
[in-hyoo-meyn or, often, -yoo-]

adjective
not humane; lacking humanity, kindness, compassion, etc."

Do we know better than dogs and foxes...we have a word describing  the behavior, yet allow ourselves to sink to or below to the same level, using whatever means to justify the enjoyment of the act..

No human is torturing foxes. They are allowing dogs to kill foxes in their own way.


#71    Michelle

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:03 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 February 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

What if it wasn't referred to as a hunt, but as pest control?

Who is forcing the dogs to torture the fox to death? What human told them to do it? or do they do it instinctively? And yes, we abort babies that have obvious defects.

They are trained...just like my Malamute and Huskey both were trained not to kill. We have cats and wildlife that wanders into our yard that we enjoy very much. Neither of my dogs would go after any of them unless I gave the word. Even then, they only chased them out of the yard and stopped on command.

Edited by Michelle, 26 February 2013 - 11:05 PM.


#72    jules99

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:04 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 February 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

No human is torturing foxes. They are allowing dogs to kill foxes in their own way.
Yer but a foxhound is specially bred isnt it :yes: for the the purpose? We bred the qualities into the hound.. It is us, no real point in denying it as we are complicit.


#73    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:30 PM

View Postjules99, on 26 February 2013 - 11:04 PM, said:

Yer but a foxhound is specially bred isnt it :yes: for the the purpose? We bred the qualities into the hound.. It is us, no real point in denying it as we are complicit.

As there is no denying that stopping the fox culls leads to other animals and humans suffering?


#74    jules99

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:41 AM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 February 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

As there is no denying that stopping the fox culls leads to other animals and humans suffering?
Not Agreed; or at least unsure;
Can you provide scientific evidence to show that traditional fox hunting culls an appreciable percentage of foxes?
The link below suggests a year long ban on hunting had no effect on fox numbers; ie no population increase as was feared there would be;

http://www.guardian....cience.research

If professional hunters were used, specific fox types could be targeted such as the aged or diseased, not the fit or the young. A traditional hunt with dogs wont discriminate in this way..


#75    freetoroam

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:17 PM

View Postxsas, on 26 February 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

I don’t know what the laws are about hunting boars where you live, it may well be legal, fox hunting here isn’t, just the same way we can’t chop the hand of a thief like they do in the Middle east or stone a woman to death in the street because she smiled at or was seen with another man.
  • I have no problem with a farmer killing a fox to protect his livestock.
  • I have no problem with a relative killing a fox to protect their child.
  • I have no problem with an individual killing a fox to protect themselves.
I do have a problem with a groups of organised Hooray Henry’s dresses in funny cloths hunting down every fox they see and slaughtering it as a pastime. Most of these people are not effected by foxes, it is just a callous after school activity to them.

Tell me why the Prime minister need to do this as a pastime?Do you think his chickens are killed or they attack his geese?

^ all this sums exactly how I feel too.

This is not about farmers protecting their stock, this thread is about a group of hoohar henrys out playing with their hunting dogs trained to hunt foxes for the hoohar henrys enjoyment.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.




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