19 replies to this topic

[Orcseeker]

http://www.theage.co...0217-2el4e.html

An interesting article I read in the paper recently.

I wonder how much is still out there that is considered fact but is in fact propaganda. It's quite amazing this sort of thing has been around for so long. The lives of rulers and key figures in history kept a mystery... But for how long?

Any thoughts on this? Any more anecdotes on propaganda in history?

[third_eye]

I enjoyed this book. The link is to amazon but you can get this anywhere.

Quote

Millennium; A History of the Last Thousand Years [Paperback]

There is simply no other book like it--an Oxford scholar presents a genuine global history, spanning ten centuries and examining and weaving together events and movements in every part of the world. 400 photos and illustrations.

amazon

Attached Files

•  5100DWF4ZZL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg   19.1K   4 downloads

[TheSearcher]

Funnily enough, cracked.com has a few quite good examples about just that. Not propaganda all the time, but deliberate omissions quite often, or just fallacies that we do believe for some reason. The three first articles are my preferred ones. Never knock a site like Cracked, they do source whatever they publish.

http://www.cracked.c...tory-class.html
http://www.cracked.c...lied-about.html
http://www.cracked.c...ng-america.html
http://www.cracked.c...er4=recommended

[lesliepookie]

Almost all of my "history" I learned in school in the 70's was based on outright lies,propaganda,half truths, and omissions. I learned to read for myself and delve further into history to uncover some truths. Its simply amazing the way facts are distorted.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

TheSearcher, on 20 February 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

Never knock a site like Cracked, they do source whatever they publish.

http://www.cracked.c...lied-about.html

Some of what they publish has been known for a long time, but some is wrong. In the link I left from your post is a long article about first woman in space being ridiculously attributed to Sally Ride, and they correct this by saying it was in fact Valentina Tereshkova. However, article takes for granted that first man to orbit Earth was John Glen, it was not, it was Yuri Gagarin, first man and first orbit. Sheppard was first American in space and he went straight up and down again, no orbit. It also says nazis put first rocket in space using V2. This is nonsense as V2 was much too small and underpowered to reach space. Wonder what else they have wrong.... perhaps there should be a site to expose their lies....

[moonshadow60]

Of course history books lie.  Every war in history has at least 3 sides; the winning country, the losing country, and the people who were there.  The winners have been the ones to write the history books.

[sk8tan71]

The victors always write history.  Hell, even history between different groups of victors can vary greatly.  In the US there is no mention of the Russian invasion of Japan during WWII, just like in Russia there was no mention of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in their history.

Why does the propaganda exist?  Because the winning side needs to paint itself as the side of "good" and the others as the side of "evil".  That is why we executed Japanese military officers after WWII for waterboarding, because it was "torture".  However, our own forces employing the same technique are now using "enhanced interrogation".  But to delve a bit further into it, if you admit your side did things that are extremely abhorrent, like the fire bombing of Tokyo, giving infected blankets to Native American tribes, then you don't inspire good little drones in school.

[third_eye]

link d'amazon

Quote

Archaeological
discoveries have shed new light on the ancient texts that have survived, and this
has led to new interpretations of the past. We now know that the Roman Empire
brought much of the development of science and mathematics to a grinding halt
for about  1500 years, and that a great deal of what was known and achieved
before Rome took over had to be relearned and rediscovered much more
recently.

Barbarians (TV Series 2006– ) link

[redhen]

sk8tan71, on 21 March 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

The victors always write history.  Hell, even history between different groups of victors can vary greatly.  In the US there is no mention of the Russian invasion of Japan during WWII,

I bet most don't know that Russia invaded Poland the same time Germany did, but only Germany got bad press.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

redhen, on 23 March 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:

I bet most don't know that Russia invaded Poland the same time Germany did, but only Germany got bad press.

This is common knowledge, not some secret history. To be exact, Poland was not invaded by Russia, it was invaded by the Soviet Union, led by the Georgian Stalin. Commander in chief of the invasion forces was Kliment Voroshilov, and main army commander was Semyon Timoshenko. Both were Ukranian. So, why keep using name of Russia, if not as propaganda for today......

[Frank Merton]

Atentutankh-pasheri, on 23 March 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

This is common knowledge, not some secret history. To be exact, Poland was not invaded by Russia, it was invaded by the Soviet Union, led by the Georgian Stalin. Commander in chief of the invasion forces was Kliment Voroshilov, and main army commander was Semyon Timoshenko. Both were Ukranian. So, why keep using name of Russia, if not as propaganda for today......

All of your facts are probably correct, but it doesn't change the fact that Russia invaded Poland.

[Frank Merton]

third_eye, on 22 March 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

link d'amazon


Barbarians (TV Series 2006– ) link

Actually I would argue that the scientific and cultural progress came to a halt with Alexander the Great.

[Frank Merton]

moonshadow60, on 20 March 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

Of course history books lie.  Every war in history has at least 3 sides; the winning country, the losing country, and the people who were there.  The winners have been the ones to write the history books.

I'm more optimistic than that, and tend to think the idea that the victors write the hisory is cliched beyond tolerance.  Historians go to sources from all sides, and although the local histories taught high schoolers may be distorted, scholars a few centuries down the road have a pretty good understanding of what was the big picture.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

Frank Merton, on 23 March 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

All of your facts are probably correct, but it doesn't change the fact that Russia invaded Poland.

No, it was Soviet Union, not Russia. To say anything different is not semantics, it is distorting reality. Were soldiers of First Ukranian Front all Russians?. If modern state of Russia is to be blamed for this, then so should Ukraine. And though he was in Mexico, let us not forget the Pole Trotsky who led an attack on Poland in 1920, or Radek or founder of Cheka, Dzerzhinsky, all Poles. Nothing is black and white here. And not forget Polands behaviour during time of troubles......

edit for typos

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 23 March 2013 - 09:12 AM.

[Frank Merton]

What you are doing is the equivalent of insisting on "United States" when people say "America."  The people and culture behind the invasion was Russia as it then existed.  Saying, "The Soviet Union" is fine but denying it was Russia is misleading and indeed disingenuous.