Vigilantes in Mexico doing something

[green_dude777]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/02/20/armed-vigilantes-in-southern-mexico-release-42-their-detained-uspects/?intcmp=obinsite

I'm kind of frustrated that this isn't bigger news. I feel Mexico is missing a big rally point in the help to deter the cartels.

This is something that hasn't really been brought up in the U.S. gun debate, but having armed citizens would help prevent chaos if the civil services provided by a local government were to fail or become non existent.

[Thanato]

How could this remotly relate to the US Gun Debate?

Also good on them.

[rashore]

Oh, for the love of... Green, you are frustrated this isn't bigger news... Yet you turned the real headline of

Armed vigilantes in southern Mexico release 42 of their detained 'suspects

Into a thread title of

Vigilantes in Mexico doing something

And you wonder why this isn't bigger news... Even FOX made a bigger deal out of it in their headline than you did posting it here.

That said. I hadn't heard of this before you posted this thread. Do you have more about this general situation that you can post up?

[green_dude777]

Oh, for the love of... Green, you are frustrated this isn't bigger news... Yet you turned the real headline of

Into a thread title of

And you wonder why this isn't bigger news... Even FOX made a bigger deal out of it in their headline than you did posting it here.

That said. I hadn't heard of this before you posted this thread. Do you have more about this general situation that you can post up?

My apologies, I'm not much of a sensationalist. I was frustrated it wasn't being reported in more detail among the major news networks here in the U.S... and no, this is all I have seen.

Thanato: I wasn't tying it into the U.S. gun debate, it simply brought to mind another reason people should be armed. I thought the sentence communicated that point, I apologize if it wasn't clear enough.

[MichaelW]

http://www.foxnews.c...intcmp=obinsite

I'm kind of frustrated that this isn't bigger news. I feel Mexico is missing a big rally point in the help to deter the cartels.

This is something that hasn't really been brought up in the U.S. gun debate, but having armed citizens would help prevent chaos if the civil services provided by a local government were to fail or become non existent.

When federal government has to disarm the entire police force of a state and replace it with federal police and army troops to maintain law and order because state governments were in bed with the cartels for half a century or more happens in the US, then you can equate it to the situation in Mexico. Until then, refrain from making comparisons which aren't based in fact.

[MichaelW]

My apologies, I'm not much of a sensationalist. I was frustrated it wasn't being reported in more detail among the major news networks here in the U.S... and no, this is all I have seen.

Thanato: I wasn't tying it into the U.S. gun debate, it simply brought to mind another reason people should be armed. I thought the sentence communicated that point, I apologize if it wasn't clear enough.

But the thing is, in Mexico, the people are arming themselves because the police can no longer be trusted and federal authorities are far too stretched to help them. You don't have this instability and chaos every day in the US. You have a reasonably incorruptable police force, reasonably incorruptable state governments and a reasonably incorruptable federal government coupled with a stable state and reasonably even spread of wealth.

They don't have this in Mexico.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I'm kind of frustrated that this isn't bigger news. I feel Mexico is missing a big rally point in the help to deter the cartels.

This is something that hasn't really been brought up in the U.S. gun debate, but having armed citizens would help prevent chaos if the civil services provided by a local government were to fail or become non existent.

Vigilantes are utterly wrong if they dont act in law restrictions, which they often not knowing law, do. And in the end good guys become bad guys. Having armed citizens would raise chaos.

[Babe Ruth]

But the thing is, in Mexico, the people are arming themselves because the police can no longer be trusted and federal authorities are far too stretched to help them. You don't have this instability and chaos every day in the US. You have a reasonably incorruptable police force, reasonably incorruptable state governments and a reasonably incorruptable federal government coupled with a stable state and reasonably even spread of wealth.

They don't have this in Mexico.

????

Our system is incorruptible? Egads, do you read the news?

[Orcseeker]

But the thing is, in Mexico, the people are arming themselves because the police can no longer be trusted and federal authorities are far too stretched to help them. You don't have this instability and chaos every day in the US. You have a reasonably incorruptable police force, reasonably incorruptable state governments and a reasonably incorruptable federal government coupled with a stable state and reasonably even spread of wealth.

They don't have this in Mexico.

Though many American police officers and others in the police force support the notion that civilians should be armed. Because they can't teleport, time it takes them to get there could mean the difference between an innocent being injured or even killed to surviving (being armed and apprehending/subduing/incapacitating the subject).

Corruption is so widespread in Mexico there is speculation the government is just like another cartel. Though it is slowly improving. I wouldn't be surprised if the cartels were bribing US politicians to ensure drug illegalisation remains.

Though apparently corruption in the western world is impossible to you.

[green_dude777]

So, now the Mexican government is telling the vigilantes to "stand down" and that they are going to strictly enforce the gun laws.

http://news.yahoo.com/mexico-urges-vigilantes-stand-down-drug-gang-conflict-002249123.html

Weird, you think they would have said that to the cartels, not the patriots fighting against them.

[spartan max2]

Dam this article is so short and I haven't heard anything else about it.

Hopefully these "vigilantes" are good people fighting the cartels and not just some other gang.

Mexico basically needs a revolutionary overhaul of its government

Edit: the yahoo article you posted goes in to it more. They seem to be good people fighting the cartle because the government is just a corrupt piece of ****. Good for them. Mexico needs some serious changes

And yes I think this is another good example of why the 2nd amendment is important. Unless people are prideful enough to believe that we could never possibly end up like Mexico at some point in the future

Edited January 14, 2014 by spartan max2

[green_dude777]

Dam this article is so short and I haven't heard anything else about it.

Hopefully these "vigilantes" are good people fighting the cartels and not just some other gang.

Mexico basically needs a revolutionary overhaul of its government

Edit: the yahoo article you posted goes in to it more. They seem to be good people fighting the cartle because the government is just a corrupt piece of ****. Good for them. Mexico needs some serious changes

Just to note, that first posting in this thread is something I found last year. I find it odd that almost a year has gone by, the vigilantes are securing more villages, yet our media in the U.S. says little to nothing. Hell, today CNN had Bieber's house being searched as a breaking news headline.

[spartan max2]

Just to note, that first posting in this thread is something I found last year. I find it odd that almost a year has gone by, the vigilantes are securing more villages, yet our media in the U.S. says little to nothing. Hell, today CNN had Bieber's house being searched as a breaking news headline.

interesting.

This really should be a bigger deal seeing how Mexico is our neighbor and our border isn't exactly the safest.

But I guess talking about it doesn't serve anyone's political agenda at the moment...

Apprentley Biebers house is so much more relevant to our life

Edited January 14, 2014 by spartan max2

[aztek]

reasonably incorruptable state governments and a reasonably incorruptable federal government coupled

lmao. best joke of the day

[aztek]

Vigilantes are utterly wrong if they dont act in law restrictions, which they often not knowing law, do. And in the end good guys become bad guys. Having armed citizens would raise chaos.

law failed. period,

having armed citizens sure would not, and does not raise chaos. every state that allows carry shows how wrong you are.

what exactly are you baising your opinion on? lying propaganda? sure looks that way.

[spartan max2]

Vigilantes are utterly wrong if they dont act in law restrictions, which they often not knowing law, do. And in the end good guys become bad guys. Having armed citizens would raise chaos.

When the government and laws are corrupt past the point of repair, the police force works for the cartel, the politicians paid off. And you have people kidnapping, killing and extorting money from your community then what are you suppose to do?

In that case you may have to break the "law". Just because something is a law it does not make it right.

[green_dude777]

And here's an update;

http://news.yahoo.com/mexican-vigilantes-accuse-army-killing-four-173544410.html

Still think the Mexican government should be more focused on disarming the cartels as opposed to the citizens fighting against them.

[aztek]

And here's an update;

http://news.yahoo.co...-173544410.html

Still think the Mexican government should be more focused on disarming the cartels as opposed to the citizens fighting against them.

mexican gvmnt is paid by cartels.

[rashore]

Guys? Big Bad Voodoo isn't on UM anymore.

This is a crazy situation. Here's a couple more articles on it.

BBC News: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-25739937

CBS News: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexico-vigilantes-girl-killed-in-clashes-with-military/

Yahoo: http://news.yahoo.com/mexican-vigilantes-seize-drug-cartel-bastion-220248151.html

[Wickian]

I've been reading about the vigilante's for a few months now. The last article I read hinted that they are growing in numbers and plan to start sweeping even the larger cities clear of as much drug activity as possible.

[spartan max2]

I've been reading about the vigilante's for a few months now. The last article I read hinted that they are growing in numbers and plan to start sweeping even the larger cities clear of as much drug activity as possible.

This is good. I just hope that like many times in the world the saviors don't end up becoming just as corrupt as the people they are trying to get rid of :/

[Beany]

And who polices the vigilantes other than themselves? Are they not a law unto themselves answerable to no one? It's another form of lawlessness, those who have the weapons and might make the rules. For the life of me, I do not understand how more weapons and more violence and lawlessness are considered to be solutions.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Beany

[green_dude777]

And who polices the vigilantes other than themselves? Are they not a law unto themselves answerable to no one? It's another form of lawlessness, those who have the weapons and might make the rules. For the life of me, I do not understand how more weapons and more violence and lawlessness are considered to be solutions.

It's easy, I'll localize a scenario for you.

You're in your home, a couple cartel members invade your home and are holding you and your family hostage. Someone alerts the local authorities, they laugh and ignore the situation. A couple of your neighbors get their rifles out, set up, and shoot the 2 cartel members, saving you and your family. Violence saved the day.

[Xynoplas]

After the cartels, the vigilantes are going to go after their corrupt politicians.

What will it be like to see a revolution in nearby Mexico?

[jugoso]

After the cartels, the vigilantes are going to go after their corrupt politicians.

Unfortunately it will never happen. Mexican institutions ( political, legal, police, army) are so corrupt at so many different levels it is mind-blowing.

What will it be like to see a revolution in nearby Mexico?

Will hopefully look something like this if true change is to come about

, the Zapatistas - unlike Guevara - have never sought to overthrow the government and take over the state. Instead, they aimed to build an entirely new system from the bottom up - one where "the people give the orders and the government obeys", according to the popular Zapatista refrain.

"After the fall of the Soviet Union ... and the collapse of so many revolutionary movements, it's really become clear that the old, 20th-century model of revolution by building up the party and capturing control of the state just didn't work," explained Holloway, author of Change the World Without Taking Power.

The Zapatistas realised this and sought to develop a new organisational structure that has evolved over the years and is now centred around five councils. Membership in these rotates between different members of the community every two weeks, so that everyone is directly involved in local governance.