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The EU is on the blitz against Eurosceptics.

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#106    Black Red Devil

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:06 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 24 February 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

No, it was left to NATO, meaning once again the US being persuaded to join in a European conflict, as usual.

You're just clutching at straws.  Yugoslavia wasn't part of the EU.

Russia isn't part of the EU, should the EU intervene in Chechnya?

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#107    Black Red Devil

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:40 AM

View PostProfessor T, on 25 February 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

If it does happen here...
How on Earth are we supposed to filter out these EU Spam Posters from real EU supporters?

These I think are the rules the EU will be breaking if they come here to UM..

3i. Forum groups: The formation or promotion of organised groups, clans or gangs is disallowed.

[/list]

Well I'm complaining because Steve Win, Lord Vet and Bob the Potato are ganging up on Cornelius. :td:

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil, 25 February 2013 - 04:42 AM.

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#108    Br Cornelius

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:44 AM

View PostBlack Red Devil, on 25 February 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Well I'm complaining because Steve Win, Lord Vet and Bob the Potato are ganging up on Cornelius. :td:
I can look after myself :lol:

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#109    Norbert the Incredible

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:56 AM

View PostBlack Red Devil, on 25 February 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

Got no idea what EU in the middle and militarily irrelevant you're referring to. :unsure2: Maybe Switzerland, but they're the only ones that aren't part of the EU.

Anyway, lets assume you're pulling my leg and that you know NATO and the Warsaw Pact are/were military alliances created to safeguard their borders from invaders from the opposite side. Let's also assume you know that the EU is composed of most NATO and Warsaw Pact members minus the US, Russia and Canada.
I suppose it is debatable whether the EU should be given the full credit for 60 years of peace, or rather NATO and the Warsaw Pact members of the time, who dealt with maintaining peace by pointing something like 80,000 nuclear warheads at each other towards the 80's. The US alone had close to a third (10,000 out of 35,000) in bases in Europe during the cold war. Basically, a bit like trying to light a match in the dark inside a canister of gas. Or maybe, as the US posters on UM would want you to believe, more weapons = more security and less danger.

Then again, the EU did win the 2012 Nobel Prize for 60 years of Peace in Europe so let's give credit where credit is due and not try to burst even that bubble shall we?
is it really a difficult concept to understand? Try pulling up a Map and having a study of it. NATO is on the left, consisting of the US, Canada, & most of the western European nations. Whether or not those European nations were also EU members was irrelevant, since the EU had no influence over military policy and no say whatever over anything NATO did. Consequently, the EU was militarily irrelevant, and was also, geographically speaking, in the middle between NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Therefore, the EU's claim to have prevented War and preserved Peace for 60 years is irrelevant, and quite possibly mendacious, since it was nothing to do with them.

Then again, the EU did win the 2012 Nobel Prize for 60 years of Peace in Europe
Indeed, but then, barack Obama did in 2009. :-/

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#110    Norbert the Incredible

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:04 AM

View PostBlack Red Devil, on 25 February 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

You're just clutching at straws. Yugoslavia wasn't part of the EU.

Russia isn't part of the EU, should the EU intervene in Chechnya?
yes, that's the point. The Glorious Empire was only able to stop germany from invading France again (if there was ever any possibility that post-1945 Germany would ever want to again). It could do nothing to presevre Peace anywhere that was not part of the Empire. So its boast to have Prserved the Peace of Europe is somewhat mendacious.

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#111    Norbert the Incredible

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:06 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 24 February 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

Nice.

Those corrupt foreign Johnnys. meanwhile we all turn a blind eye to the white collar corruption which takes place every day in the square mile and systematically robs the world - so much cleaner, so much nicer :w00t:  

Br Cornelius
Deploying the cutting edge weapon of Sarcasm again?

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#112    Br Cornelius

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:11 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 25 February 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

is it really a difficult concept to understand? Try pulling up a Map and having a study of it. NATO is on the left, consisting of the US, Canada, & most of the western European nations. Whether or not those European nations were also EU members was irrelevant, since the EU had no influence over military policy and no say whatever over anything NATO did. Consequently, the EU was militarily irrelevant, and was also, geographically speaking, in the middle between NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Therefore, the EU's claim to have prevented War and preserved Peace for 60 years is irrelevant, and quite possibly mendacious, since it was nothing to do with them.

Then again, the EU did win the 2012 Nobel Prize for 60 years of Peace in Europe
Indeed, but then, barack Obama did in 2009. :-/
They maintained peace within the EU nations - which is all that was claimed, and bringing in NATO is the irrelivance here.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#113    Br Cornelius

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:14 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 25 February 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

yes, that's the point. The Glorious Empire was only able to stop germany from invading France again (if there was ever any possibility that post-1945 Germany would ever want to again). It could do nothing to presevre Peace anywhere that was not part of the Empire. So its boast to have Prserved the Peace of Europe is somewhat mendacious.
We all have our prisms through which we view the world, I just find that particular one to be particularly offensive and partial. Corruption comes in many shapes and sizes, and sometime the worst kind is hidden in plain sight under our noses.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#114    Norbert the Incredible

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:15 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 25 February 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

They maintained peace within the EU nations - which is all that was claimed, and bringing in NATO is the irrelivance here.

Br Cornelius
Then the Empire's claim to have preserved peace in Europe is irrelevant, and possibly mendacious, isn't it, since Germany was never seriously likely to invade France (or Russia) again, and the real balance of power was held by NATO & the WP.

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#115    Norbert the Incredible

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:17 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 25 February 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

We all have our prisms through which we view the world, I just find that particular one to be particularly offensive and partial. Corruption comes in many shapes and sizes, and sometime the worst kind is hidden in plain sight under our noses.

Br Cornelius
Sorry, which particular prism? Could you clarify?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#116    Br Cornelius

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:26 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 25 February 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Then the Empire's claim to have preserved peace in Europe is irrelevant, and possibly mendacious, isn't it, since Germany was never seriously likely to invade France (or Russia) again, and the real balance of power was held by NATO & the WP.
There is no way to know what might have happened if Europe hadn't set out with the mission to preserve peace within Europe now is there.

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson

#117    Br Cornelius

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:27 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 25 February 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Sorry, which particular prism? Could you clarify?
There was a particularly offensive comment made about how all those poor periphery countries riddled with corruption were after our honest pound (through structural funding) and had no intention of becoming honest contributing members of the EU - thats was the prism that was been used and which I was commenting on.
The point is, corruption is everywhere, but some is far more obvious than others. The UK is the very spider on the web of transnational financial corruption which has robbed billions from across the world, and the UK Government wants to protect those corrupt institutions because it draws down a subsantial part of its income from those corrupt activities.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 25 February 2013 - 09:33 AM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#118    Norbert the Incredible

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:31 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 25 February 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

There is no way to know what might have happened if Europe hadn't set out with the mission to preserve peace within Europe now is there.

Br Cornelius
if the two postwar power blocs hadn't developed, the EU's mission to preserve peace in Europe might have had some relevance, but as it was it was completely irrelevant; it's rather like the U.S. Govt. being given a Peace prize for preventing the North & South from going to war again.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#119    Norbert the Incredible

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:32 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 25 February 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

All those poor periphery countries riddled with corruption - after our honest pound - thats was the prism that was been used and which I was commenting on.

Br Cornelius
Perhaps you quoted the wrong post, then? I never mentioned anything to do with that in the post you quoted.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#120    Br Cornelius

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:36 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 25 February 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

if the two postwar power blocs hadn't developed, the EU's mission to preserve peace in Europe might have had some relevance, but as it was it was completely irrelevant; it's rather like the U.S. Govt. being given a Peace prize for preventing the North & South from going to war again.
Not really, NATO was about creating a barrier between Russia and America, it had very little to do with the potential internal conflicts of Europe, and I doubt very much it would have got involved even if it was interested.

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson





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