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The EU is on the blitz against Eurosceptics.

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#121    Br Cornelius

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:38 AM

I was responding to

View PostLord Vetinari, on 25 February 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

Perhaps you quoted the wrong post, then? I never mentioned anything to do with that in the post you quoted.
I was responding to a post by spud the mackem so the confusion is entirely yours :tu:

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#122    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:46 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 25 February 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

I was responding to

I was responding to a post by spud the mackem so the confusion is entirely yours :tu:

Br Cornelius
No, you quoted my post, so therefore I think it must be on your side that the confusion must have originated.

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#123    Professor T

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:52 AM

View PostBlack Red Devil, on 25 February 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Well I'm complaining because Steve Win, Lord Vet and Bob the Potato are ganging up on Cornelius. :td:

They're expressing their opinions about the EU.
Br's not trolling for the EU.. He's just incredibly misguided about what most folk here think about the EU.

Edited by Professor T, 25 February 2013 - 09:55 AM.


#124    Br Cornelius

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:14 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 25 February 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

No, you quoted my post, so therefore I think it must be on your side that the confusion must have originated.
Go back and look, its Spud post not yours.

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#125    Br Cornelius

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:18 AM

View PostProfessor T, on 25 February 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:


They're expressing their opinions about the EU.
Br's not trolling for the EU.. He's just incredibly misguided about what most folk here think about the EU.
I think that most folks have been misguided by a powerful media with a conservative agenda - but that just my opinion.

Most people are happy to ignore the benefits they have gained from membership of the EU in the face of a global economic catastrophy which was precipitated by massive deregulation of the financial markets. This was not caused by the EU, it was caused by a faulty economic philosphy that swept the world. Mis-attribution is what is going on here, and its a fine slight of hand from the Euroskeptic media which has caused it.

Br Cornelius

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#126    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:24 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 25 February 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

I think that most folks have been misguided by a powerful media with a conservative agenda - but that just my opinion.

Most people are happy to ignore the benefits they have gained from membership of the EU in the face of a global economic catastrophy which was precipitated by massive deregulation of the financial markets. This was not caused by the EU, it was caused by a faulty economic philosphy that swept the world. Mis-attribution is what is going on here, and its a fine slight of hand from the Euroskeptic media which has caused it.

Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

First off, can I just say, despite what Red/Black says, nobody is 'ganging up' on you. You have your opinions & you put your points across forcefully as no doubt you'd expect others to do, afterall this is a debating forum & thats what makes it fun.
Secondly regarding your analysis above, have you considered that  some of us 'euroskeptics' held these opinions way before the financial crisis hit?

“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx

#127    Br Cornelius

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:37 AM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 25 February 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

First off, can I just say, despite what Red/Black says, nobody is 'ganging up' on you. You have your opinions & you put your points across forcefully as no doubt you'd expect others to do, afterall this is a debating forum & thats what makes it fun.
Secondly regarding your analysis above, have you considered that  some of us 'euroskeptics' held these opinions way before the financial crisis hit?
I can look after myself :D

However the popularity of the EU among the general public has declined in lock step with the recent economic downtown, so you die hard euroskeptics aren't the real issue here.

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#128    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:41 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 25 February 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

I can look after myself :D

However the popularity of the EU among the general public has declined in lock step with the recent economic downtown, so you die hard euroskeptics aren't the real issue here.

Br Cornelius

In which case i'll butt out :lol:

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#129    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:54 AM

It sucks to be Scottish in this day and age.

Think about it: say a majority of Scots want to leave GB and become independent, fair enough if that's what they want. But as soon as they do so, they're either going to apply to the EU or be absorbed automatically, giving up the 'independence' they seem to want so badly.

It makes literally no sense from a Nationalist's point of view :D Comical, almost.


#130    keithisco

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:05 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 25 February 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

It sucks to be Scottish in this day and age.

Think about it: say a majority of Scots want to leave GB and become independent, fair enough if that's what they want. But as soon as they do so, they're either going to apply to the EU or be absorbed automatically, giving up the 'independence' they seem to want so badly.

It makes literally no sense from a Nationalist's point of view :D Comical, almost.

Dont worry, it has been made clear that any Region ceding from the Mother Nation, will have to re-apply to become a member of the EU, whether it be Scotland or Catalonia (Spain). There is no "Free Pass" to membership, and negotiations will take several years, after which you should get another referendum asking you if you want to join the EU.


#131    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:24 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 25 February 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Dont worry, it has been made clear that any Region ceding from the Mother Nation, will have to re-apply to become a member of the EU, whether it be Scotland or Catalonia (Spain). There is no "Free Pass" to membership, and negotiations will take several years, after which you should get another referendum asking you if you want to join the EU.

This is isn't completely true. This theory was printed by the Scotsman, then reprinted by the Telegraph, and based on a supposed letter sent by the EU.

Exclusive: Scotsman EU membership story "incorrect" says EC

Quote

Reports in the Scottish media that the European Commission has sent a letter to the House of Lords claiming an independent Scotland would have to re-apply for EU membership, have been dismissed by a spokesman for EC President José Manuel Barroso.

The story, which originally appeared in the Scotsman newspaper, claimed that a House of Lords committee had been sent an official letter that contradicted SNP claims that an independent Scotland would remain a member of the EU.

However a spokesman for Mr Barroso described the claims made in the article as “incorrect” and insisted no decision had yet been made on how to respond to the committee’s request to the EC President for a statement on an independent Scotland’s EU status.

Responding to a question from Newsnet Scotland, the spokesman said: "President Barroso has been invited to contribute to the House of Lords inquiry on the economic implications for the United Kingdom of Scottish Independence.  The President has not yet replied.

http://www.newsnetsc...orrectq-says-ec

The comparison to Catalonia isn't really an accurate one, considering Catalonia independence would result in an entire new country and government being formed.

And the fact of the matter is that we cannot state for sure either way, whether or not Scotland would be instantly accepted, simply because there is no precedent, that I am aware of. Which is why I worded my post as 'they're either going to apply to the EU or be absorbed automatically'. We simply do not know.

Edited by ExpandMyMind, 25 February 2013 - 03:26 PM.


#132    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:31 PM

Not really sure if Nato kept any peace in Europe simply by occupying BRD. Those Nato troops were, in a way, and debatable of course, an irrelevance, simply a tripwire, not much more. Most would have been nuked in their barracks even before they knew any war was coming, and Third Shock Army would have been on English channel in a few days. Never be known for certain of course, but hairnet wearing Germans, drug addled Americans and British with rubbish equipment would not have withstood the mighty armies of ..... er, well, you get the picture :)
However, one thing that is very clear, is that EU had nothing to do with keeping any peace in Europe, nothing, nada, zip. Nyet, nyet nyet. BTW, I write about the military matters from experience


#133    Br Cornelius

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:08 PM

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 25 February 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

Not really sure if Nato kept any peace in Europe simply by occupying BRD. Those Nato troops were, in a way, and debatable of course, an irrelevance, simply a tripwire, not much more. Most would have been nuked in their barracks even before they knew any war was coming, and Third Shock Army would have been on English channel in a few days. Never be known for certain of course, but hairnet wearing Germans, drug addled Americans and British with rubbish equipment would not have withstood the mighty armies of ..... er, well, you get the picture :)
However, one thing that is very clear, is that EU had nothing to do with keeping any peace in Europe, nothing, nada, zip. Nyet, nyet nyet. BTW, I write about the military matters from experience
Peace is only about military matters when everything else fails - the EU prevented that failure to negotate a peace in the first place.

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson

#134    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:39 PM

Is this kind of re-writing of history and the surely deliberate ignoring of the fact that the EU and NATO are quite seperate organisations an example of the kind of rebuttal of myths and lies that the Imperial Ministry of Information is proposing to come up with? If it is, it would surely provide further evidence that Nineteen Eighty-Four ought to be moved from the Fiction to the Non-Fiction shelves. Are we next going to be told that NATO never in fact existed, or that United States forces were never actually present in Europe post-1945, and it was in fact the Empire that held the Russian Bear at bay for 40 years? That the Warsaw Pact never tried anything because it was so afraid of all the Directives that would come its way from Brussels and Strasbourg?

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#135    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 04:47 PM

EU was not a player in the game, it was of no consequence. Soviet Union did not need to talk to EU, only US. If EU was military structure during cold war, which it was not in any way, they would have been treated like some naughty child and laughed at. USAREUR, Northag and Centag were nothing to do with EU. Take them out of picture and what would have kept peace in Europe, perhaps the Belgian bicycle troops? (No offense to Belgians). The reality is that what kept peace in Europe, and the world of course, is the principle of MAD, not the self indulgent madness from EU.

Not to anybody, simply musing. In my darker moments I see myself on top of Harz mountains, looking over the North German plain and seeing the mushroom clouds rising into to sky from Fulda in the South, up to Minden, Munster, the large concentrations around Braunschweig, (rather close for comfort). Then to see the hordes of DDR cannon fodder, ooops, I mean glorious fellow anti-fascist warriors, testing the way. Then, upon the heroic bones of our fallen Warsaw Pact comrades, our mighty tank armies of superior T-64 and T-80, crushing the US cowards and their worthless poodles as we drive victoriously to....... then I wake up...

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 25 February 2013 - 04:59 PM.






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