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The EU is on the blitz against Eurosceptics.

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#136    stevewinn

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 05:49 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 25 February 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

I think that most folks have been misguided by a powerful media with a conservative agenda - but that just my opinion.

Most people are happy to ignore the benefits they have gained from membership of the EU in the face of a global economic catastrophy which was precipitated by massive deregulation of the financial markets. This was not caused by the EU, it was caused by a faulty economic philosphy that swept the world. Mis-attribution is what is going on here, and its a fine slight of hand from the Euroskeptic media which has caused it.

Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

who is ignoring the benefits of the EU, the skeptics on here me included we have always acknowledged benefits with the main reference being to trade, but the EU in many skeptics minds is that they've gone to far. why couldnt the EU have just stayed a trading block, like what we see with NAFTA. instead we've seen the UK handing over 52 million pounds a day. being dragooned from treaty to treaty giving the EU even greater power with each one. just imagine the EU, was just a trading block, with no freedom of movement, no red tape, for stupid things such as you cannot sell misshaped fruit or vegetables, remember the case of the Kiwi fruits, when under EU rules if a kiwi fruit is under 62g it cannot be sold. i mean c'mon, its all gone horribly wrong. - since the recession the EU has done away with the misshapen rules, but just think from 1992 to 2008 under EU rules you were not allowed to sell misshapen fruit or vegetables. so a wonky carrot or straight bananas etc..were banned. leading to an estimated 20% of fruit and vegetables across the EU being banned. just madness. but like i posted just the other day about the EU passing new rules on jigsaw puzzles. they love meddling.

as for peace in europe look no further than Pax Americana. Since the end of world war II America was pulling the levers with most european countries paying back loans from the Marshall aid program, upto the year 2008 most european countries where still paying back loans (not linked to Marshall aid) to America. the influence cannot be ignored.

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#137    Br Cornelius

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:07 PM

View Poststevewinn, on 25 February 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

who is ignoring the benefits of the EU, the skeptics on here me included we have always acknowledged benefits with the main reference being to trade, but the EU in many skeptics minds is that they've gone to far. why couldnt the EU have just stayed a trading block, like what we see with NAFTA. instead we've seen the UK handing over 52 million pounds a day. being dragooned from treaty to treaty giving the EU even greater power with each one. just imagine the EU, was just a trading block, with no freedom of movement, no red tape, for stupid things such as you cannot sell misshaped fruit or vegetables, remember the case of the Kiwi fruits, when under EU rules if a kiwi fruit is under 62g it cannot be sold. i mean c'mon, its all gone horribly wrong. - since the recession the EU has done away with the misshapen rules, but just think from 1992 to 2008 under EU rules you were not allowed to sell misshapen fruit or vegetables. so a wonky carrot or straight bananas etc..were banned. leading to an estimated 20% of fruit and vegetables across the EU being banned. just madness. but like i posted just the other day about the EU passing new rules on jigsaw puzzles. they love meddling.

as for peace in europe look no further than Pax Americana. Since the end of world war II America was pulling the levers with most european countries paying back loans from the Marshall aid program, upto the year 2008 most european countries where still paying back loans (not linked to Marshall aid) to America. the influence cannot be ignored.

Can you show me the exact treaty clause which prohibited the selling of small Kiwi's. Last time I looked these supposed EU restrictions were fabrications of the rabbid Euroskeptic press.
Prove me wrong.

Br Cornelius

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#138    A rather obscure Bassoon

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:18 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 25 February 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Can you show me the exact treaty clause which prohibited the selling of small Kiwi's. Last time I looked these supposed EU restrictions were fabrications of the rabbid Euroskeptic press.
Prove me wrong.

Br Cornelius

http://www.telegraph...mall-kiwis.html

http://www.dailymail...ETRE-small.html

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#139    stevewinn

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:24 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 25 February 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Can you show me the exact treaty clause which prohibited the selling of small Kiwi's. Last time I looked these supposed EU restrictions were fabrications of the rabbid Euroskeptic press.
Prove me wrong.

Br Cornelius

its near impossible for me to find the exact treaty clause, how much time would that take, but how will the BBC as a source suffice. am sure more than acceptable.

The European Commission has scrapped controversial rules that prevent oddly-sized or misshapen fruit and vegetables being sold in Europe
The EU's agriculture commissioner called it "a new dawn for the curvy cucumber and the knobbly carrot".

Marketing standards for 26 types of produce were scrapped, in a drive to cut bureaucracy.
The rules were introduced to ensure common EU standards, but are regarded by critics as examples of Euro-madness.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8127461.stm

there are restrictions that still apply, to the following.
  • Apples
  • Citrus fruit
  • Kiwi fruit
  • Lettuces
  • Peaches and nectarines
  • Pears
  • Strawberries
  • Sweet peppers
  • Table grapes
  • Tomatoes
The rules will remain unchanged for another 10 types of produce, which account for 75% of EU fruit and vegetable trade: apples, citrus fruit, kiwi fruit, lettuces, peaches and nectarines, pears, strawberries, sweet peppers, table grapes and tomatoes.


you finished your post with prove you wrong. just have. B)  when are you going to realise i dont have to tell lies, picking the EU apart is easy, just need to be on the ball.

Edited by stevewinn, 25 February 2013 - 06:28 PM.

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#140    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 06:28 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 25 February 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Can you show me the exact treaty clause which prohibited the selling of small Kiwi's. Last time I looked these supposed EU restrictions were fabrications of the rabbid Euroskeptic press.
Prove me wrong.

Br Cornelius
All residents of New Zealand for sale or hire throughout the Empire must be no less than 1.6m in height.

~ EU Directive 466464/238833/A/6644 Sub-Paragraph II, 2006.

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.


#141    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:08 PM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 25 February 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

All residents of New Zealand for sale or hire throughout the Empire must be no less than 1.6m in height.

~ EU Directive 466464/238833/A/6644 Sub-Paragraph II, 2006.

Lol, I just Googled that to see if it was the real deal, then realised my folly (and slower than I'd like to admit).

:D

Nice one. Looks like I've ingested a wee bit too much fluoride in my day...


#142    Black Red Devil

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:14 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 25 February 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

All residents of New Zealand for sale or hire throughout the Empire must be no less than 1.6m in height.

~ EU Directive 466464/238833/A/6644 Sub-Paragraph II, 2006.

Watch it!!  Mr T is lining up the All Blacks to ruck and maul you into the ground.

Edited by Black Red Devil, 26 February 2013 - 02:17 AM.

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#143    Black Red Devil

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:25 AM

View PostProfessor T, on 25 February 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:


They're expressing their opinions about the EU.
Br's not trolling for the EU.. He's just incredibly misguided about what most folk here think about the EU.

It's OK mate I was just joking.  Not so sure about the misguided part though.

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#144    keithisco

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:10 AM

View Poststevewinn, on 25 February 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

its near impossible for me to find the exact treaty clause, how much time would that take, but how will the BBC as a source suffice. am sure more than acceptable.

The European Commission has scrapped controversial rules that prevent oddly-sized or misshapen fruit and vegetables being sold in Europe
The EU's agriculture commissioner called it "a new dawn for the curvy cucumber and the knobbly carrot".

Marketing standards for 26 types of produce were scrapped, in a drive to cut bureaucracy.
The rules were introduced to ensure common EU standards, but are regarded by critics as examples of Euro-madness.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8127461.stm

there are restrictions that still apply, to the following.
  • Apples
  • Citrus fruit
  • Kiwi fruit
  • Lettuces
  • Peaches and nectarines
  • Pears
  • Strawberries
  • Sweet peppers
  • Table grapes
  • Tomatoes
The rules will remain unchanged for another 10 types of produce, which account for 75% of EU fruit and vegetable trade: apples, citrus fruit, kiwi fruit, lettuces, peaches and nectarines, pears, strawberries, sweet peppers, table grapes and tomatoes.


you finished your post with prove you wrong. just have. B)  when are you going to realise i dont have to tell lies, picking the EU apart is easy, just need to be on the ball.
This is what I mean by disinformation gaining a foothold. None of these products were prevented from sale, the reality is that they could not be classed as Class 1, therefore could only be sold as Class 2 produce. You see Class 2 produce everywhere on sale in Spain and it is marked as such.. The large UK Stores however will only sell Class 1 produce and that is where the misconception comes in because it is all uniform in weight, shape, and size.


#145    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:18 AM

View Postkeithisco, on 26 February 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

This is what I mean by disinformation gaining a foothold. None of these products were prevented from sale, the reality is that they could not be classed as Class 1, therefore could only be sold as Class 2 produce. You see Class 2 produce everywhere on sale in Spain and it is marked as such.. The large UK Stores however will only sell Class 1 produce and that is where the misconception comes in because it is all uniform in weight, shape, and size.
But does it matter? Why does the Empire want to classify some fruits as Class 1 & some as Class 2? What's the possible point of it all? Surely it's all just to give armies of bureaucrats something to do. :-/

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.


#146    Br Cornelius

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:31 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 26 February 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

But does it matter? Why does the Empire want to classify some fruits as Class 1 & some as Class 2? What's the possible point of it all? Surely it's all just to give armies of bureaucrats something to do. :-/
The point is that its misinformation/disinformation for overt political aims.
The real issue here is why doesn't the UK retail market sell anything but Class A veg, and the reality is that this would not have changed one tiny iota under the EU classification system. The objective of the regulations is to achieve consistency across countries which allows an importer to have confidence they know what quality they are getting when they purchase a product. Its all about trade on a level playing field.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 26 February 2013 - 09:33 AM.

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#147    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:45 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 26 February 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

The point is that its misinformation/disinformation for overt political aims.
The real issue here is why doesn't the UK retail market sell anything but Class A veg, and the reality is that this would not have changed one tiny iota under the EU classification system. The objective of the regulations is to achieve consistency across countries which allows an importer to have confidence they know what quality they are getting when they purchase a product. Its all about trade on a level playing field.

Br Cornelius
Making sure of standards of quality and so on, obviously that's all very good, but this enforcement of uniformity is always very biased in favour of the giant, wealthy industrial producers (whether it's fruit & veg, meat, milk, Fish or whatever), and the imposition of the same rules on someone who just wants to grow their own veg on a smallholding and perhaps sell it to friends & neighbours, for instance, or wants to keep a couple of sheep in their back yard, those are the kind of things that people tend to get annoyed by. it's the same with Fishing; so many small fisherpeople have been driven out by businesses by this "level playing field" that lets the French or Spanish to come steaming in with their gigantic nets and sweep everything before them. Enforcing of uniform standards just means imposing mass produced, Eurostandard mediocrity.

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.


#148    Frank Merton

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:49 AM

I don't see how it can be allowed for a country to pull out of a larger political entity once it has entered it.  Otherwise one day you are in, the next day out, depending on political swings.  Centrifugal forces are always present, using nationalism, protectionism, even racism to push for exit.  What it is is local officials wanting to become national officials, local bureaucracies wanting to get rid of anyone to answer to.

Things keep going as they have recently and eventually the world will consist of a large collection of Singapores.  (Actually maybe not a bad idea).


#149    keithisco

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:01 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 26 February 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Making sure of standards of quality and so on, obviously that's all very good, but this enforcement of uniformity is always very biased in favour of the giant, wealthy industrial producers (whether it's fruit & veg, meat, milk, Fish or whatever), and the imposition of the same rules on someone who just wants to grow their own veg on a smallholding and perhaps sell it to friends & neighbours, for instance, or wants to keep a couple of sheep in their back yard, those are the kind of things that people tend to get annoyed by. it's the same with Fishing; so many small fisherpeople have been driven out by businesses by this "level playing field" that lets the French or Spanish to come steaming in with their gigantic nets and sweep everything before them. Enforcing of uniform standards just means imposing mass produced, Eurostandard mediocrity.

Without Standards then the buyer would have to be present for each transaction to ensure that he/she is getting the goods as advertised. When buying Class 1 or Class 2 goods you know exactly what you are buying which allows for greater Trade across Nations.

You might want to re-check your statements re: French / Spanish Trawlers and their real limitations.


#150    Black Red Devil

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:15 AM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 26 February 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Making sure of standards of quality and so on, obviously that's all very good, but this enforcement of uniformity is always very biased in favour of the giant, wealthy industrial producers (whether it's fruit & veg, meat, milk, Fish or whatever), and the imposition of the same rules on someone who just wants to grow their own veg on a smallholding and perhaps sell it to friends & neighbours, for instance, or wants to keep a couple of sheep in their back yard, those are the kind of things that people tend to get annoyed by. it's the same with Fishing; so many small fisherpeople have been driven out by businesses by this "level playing field" that lets the French or Spanish to come steaming in with their gigantic nets and sweep everything before them. Enforcing of uniform standards just means imposing mass produced, Eurostandard mediocrity.

This is because the consumer wants it this way, not because larger entities are forcing things onto the general populace.  It's about satisfying the buyer with current product on demand, at an affordable price, with reasonable quality and convenience.  That's why Shopping Centres with everything in them are springing up everywhere.  Does Joe the Grocer down the road sell better genuine carrots.  Probably does, but people prefer to go to the Shopping Centre to buy the carrots and the meat at the same time.

It's a common practice these days in advanced societies,  Don't blame the EU.

Edited by Black Red Devil, 26 February 2013 - 10:17 AM.

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