62 replies to this topic

[redhen]

Many people use Operation Northwoods as proof that Western governments are very interested in killing their own people. I've countered that private think tanks and government defense analysts are paid to sit around all day and dream up all kinds of threatening scenarios.

As further proof, I've posted links to War Plan Red, the 1930 U.S. plan to invade Canada. According to the plan this would have entailed strategic bombing of cities (yeah I know, many Canadians would be happy to see Toronto leveled) and the use of chemical weapons. Here's a documentary I stumbled on that discusses this plan and the context in detail.



What I found even more startling was Defense Scheme No.1 a planned Canadian invasion of America. Now that's ballsy, lol.

Needless to say, like Operation Northwoods, both these plans sat on the shelves for years collecting dust.

Edited by redhen, 22 February 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

Straetgic bombing? Sounds a bit ambitious. What bombers did the US Army Air Corps have in 1930? WWI vintage biplanes, I think were the most they had. Although to be fair, I don't know if Canada had any planes at all to speak of then. I don't think they had any tanks, which was probably fortunate, since neither did the U.S. have any worthy of the name.

[Rafterman]

redhen, on 22 February 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Many people use Operation Northwoods as proof that Western governments are very interested in killing their own people. I've countered that private think tanks and government defense analysts are paid to sit around all day and dream up all kinds of threatening scenarios.

As further proof, I've posted links to War Plan Red, the 1930 U.S. plan to invade Canada. According to the plan this would have entailed strategic bombing of cities (yeah I know, many Canadians would be happy to see Toronto leveled) and the use of chemical weapons. Here's a documentary I stumbled on that discusses this plan and the context in detail.



What I found even more startling was Defense Scheme No.1 a planned Canadian invasion of America. Now that's ballsy, lol.

Needless to say, like Operation Northwoods, both these plans sat on the shelves for years collecting dust.

You guys have to understand that this is exactly what think tanks and certain outfits in the Pentagon are paid to do - THINK.  It's all a academic exercise.

Remember all of the hype a year or so ago about FEMA and the zombie apocalypse?  Does anyone in their right mind think that the US Government thinks there is going to be a zombie apocalypse?  I sure hope not.  But guess what, preparing for a ZA is pretty similar to preparing for something like Hurricane Sandy.

[omerta]

This is what we've been training for.

http://en.wikipedia....ce_Scheme_No._1

[Taun]

I was assigned to a Combat Simulation Center back in the mid 70's and while our Corps mission was firmly focused on reinforcing and supporting West Germany from Soviet Attack, we would frequently war game (plan) various other areas including wars with fictitous countries...  I remember one where we cut and pasted a series of maps of North Korea, West Germany, North Africa (can't remember the exact country), Texas and Iceland, just to get varied terrain... Lord it was an ugly map!

Military's of all countries do this all the time... For planning practice if nothing else...

[Taun]

omerta, on 22 February 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

This is what we've been training for.

http://en.wikipedia....ce_Scheme_No._1

Interesting read... The interesting thing with that plan was that they targetted Fargo, North Dakota and Northern Maine... It would take us a few months to notice they were missing, so they would have plenty of time to reinforce!...

[Likely Guy]

I found it interesting that, as a Canadian, I'd heard of 'War Plan Red' but not 'Defense Scheme #1'.

[redhen]

Lord Vetinari, on 22 February 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

Straetgic bombing? Sounds a bit ambitious. What bombers did the US Army Air Corps have in 1930? WWI vintage biplanes, I think were the most they had. Although to be fair, I don't know if Canada had any planes at all to speak of then. I don't think they had any tanks, which was probably fortunate, since neither did the U.S. have any worthy of the name.

I probably used the wrong term. I believe the documentary mentions bombing of industrial centers. Also mentioned are the three airfields built at this time near Fort Drum. One of the airfields was camouflaged, which clearly shows hostile intent. Damm Yankees, lol

[Little Fish]

redhen, on 22 February 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Many people use Operation Northwoods as proof that Western governments are very interested in killing their own people. I've countered that private think tanks and government defense analysts are paid to sit around all day and dream up all kinds of threatening scenarios.

operation northwoods was not "an academic exercise". it was a proposal by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Lyman Lemnitzer and rejected by jfk.

operation gladio was also a real nato operation that killed citizens that nato was charged to protect.

I'm sure you know that general Lemnitzer was sacked by jfk for proposing northwoods, but did you know he went on from there to head nato and oversee operation gladio?

"academic exercise" - are you for real?

[ealdwita]

War Plan Red's ultimate goal was to destroy Britain's ability and bring the British Empire to its knees. Canada was only the start. Eventually, it was planned to destroy all British troops in Canada and the North Atlantic.

http://www.dailymail...al-weapons.html

[AsteroidX]

Think Tanks are dangerous and they deserve to be done in Glass Houses.

[Babe Ruth]

Northwoods did not prove that governments are willing to kill their own, but of course that may be implied.

What is proved beyond any doubt at all is that government are very willing indeed to DECEIVE their own.  Nothing more.

It showed that they have contingency plans in place to lie to the people, and used staged events to accomplish that goal.

[Rafterman]

Little Fish, on 22 February 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

operation northwoods was not "an academic exercise". it was a proposal by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Lyman Lemnitzer and rejected by jfk.

operation gladio was also a real nato operation that killed citizens that nato was charged to protect.

I'm sure you know that general Lemnitzer was sacked by jfk for proposing northwoods, but did you know he went on from there to head nato and oversee operation gladio?

"academic exercise" - are you for real?

But you also have to admit that the reality of Northwoods vs its place in Conspira-lore are two very separate and different things.  Northwoods, as proposed, was a psyops program with no violence targeted to American Citizens.  Targeting Cuban dissidents and refugees was one proposal and we can certainly argue the morality of that, but the myth that Northwoods was any type of attack on American Citizens is, just that, a myth that frankly grew legs as some wild justification for 9/11 being a false flag operation.  "See, they've done it before!"

And the important part of Northwoods that always gets glossed over is that it was REJECTED.  Just as any civilian leader would reject such a proposal.  That's exactly why the military reports to a civilian leader.

And, frankly, after doing some research on Operation Gladio, I'm of the opinion that conspiracy types are doing the same thing they did to Northwoods - taking a actual historical event and waving a bunch of unproven conspiratorial nonsense around it.  Just do a simple Google search on Gladio.  You'll find the wiki entry and then page after page of the usual conspiracy sites, truther, youtube videos, etc. pushing the nonsense.  And you don't have to look to far to find alleged links between Masons, the Priory of Sion, Bilderberg, the Illuminati, etc.  It's all the same silly unproven silly crap - just rinse and repeat.

Funny, though, they almost all have a book or video to sell you.

[AsteroidX]

I assume these plans have been redone several times to fit the modern armies of both countries. One thing about our military they like to have an idea of what there getting into *cough cough* if it doesnt include ten years of industrial military complex then it is not accepted and thrown in the trash.

I would expect Canada has similar contingency plans and some of these can be based on occupation by a foreign enemy as we are close allies.

[Babe Ruth]

Little Fish, on 22 February 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

operation northwoods was not "an academic exercise". it was a proposal by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Lyman Lemnitzer and rejected by jfk.

operation gladio was also a real nato operation that killed citizens that nato was charged to protect.

I'm sure you know that general Lemnitzer was sacked by jfk for proposing northwoods, but did you know he went on from there to head nato and oversee operation gladio?

"academic exercise" - are you for real?

Isn't it interesting that while Lemnitzer was sacked by JFK and went on to command NATO and such, it was JFK who was assassinated for not being a 'team player' and for having angered at least one of the Dulles brothers?

Who got the proverbial last laugh?