Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Poll, Has religion made the world better?


  • Please log in to reply
148 replies to this topic

Poll: Does religion make the world a better place? (57 member(s) have cast votes)

Has religion made the world better or worse?

  1. Better (11 votes [19.30%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.30%

  2. Worse (38 votes [66.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 66.67%

  3. It is irrelevant and does neither. (8 votes [14.04%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.04%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#16    Ashotep

Ashotep

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,993 posts
  • Joined:10 May 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

  • Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway-John Wayne

Posted 23 February 2013 - 02:35 AM

I don't know if religion itself has made things worse or peoples interpretation of it has.  People have been burned at the stake, beheaded and untold number of horrible things done in the name of religion but good things have also been done in the name of religion.


#17    Lilly

Lilly

    Forum Divinity

  • 19,265 posts
  • Joined:16 Apr 2004
  • Gender:Female

  • "To thine own self be true" William Shakespeare

Posted 23 February 2013 - 05:26 AM

It's not religion itself that's the real  problem. I agree with Hilander, it's the negative manner in which people act in the name of religion that concerns me.

"Ignorance is ignorance. It is a state of mind, not an opinion." ~MID~

Posted Image

#18    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 19,354 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 23 February 2013 - 12:28 PM

View PostMikko-kun, on 23 February 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

Mr Walker says it. We are but children, and making mistakes as well as being imperfect is our way of learning from the world. If you dont reach far, even at the risk of not seeing everything and being ignorant of many things in-between, you're not gonna grow past certain point. It's not just religion, I think that lack of being able to have faith, other than faith in hard-solid proof, will hinder you from growing and you might want to ask these things because you'd like to project your reality on others, but deep down you know it's not going to work because you can't escape from yourself, trust me drugs and religion and anything you try, wont work. You can run, but it'll always be there. You can choose how you handle yourself though.

Religion could be seen as such an escape too, in some cases, and when you take it to extremes or much beyond what you believe in other levels too, getting lost if you dont keep it to a contrast. You know how everything can be used as a weapon, but you should know that there's also a more benign and constructive use for everything, even for suspiciousness and doubt too.

If you try to force people to answer yes or no, what do you think it tells about your way of thinking this matter? Want an easy way out in something which you'd be better off just to keep looking instead of finding.



You can always find substitutes though, and new ways to fulfill these drives. It's just your own illusion or view, whichever, if you want to stick to yours.
These things can create images of us, but who we are is different than what we do and create. These things support us, but they are just a way to channel your own identity. It's good to have channels like that, but they dont define who we are. They are just reflections we create from ourselves, and definite only in their own existence.
religion is one form of expression. But i was saying that  our innate abilities, such as an ability to think logically and to think spiritually, which come from the nature and complexity of our neuro linguistic capabilities, ARE what make us human  and define us as a apsecies. Without them we would be less than human.  Religion is just one form of codification  of spiritual thought as philosophy is a form of codification of logical  thought.
We are, in terms of our identity, what we chose to be, because our mind defines us, not our biology.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#19    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 19,354 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 23 February 2013 - 12:37 PM

View PostProfessor T, on 23 February 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

I can see where you are comming from. Our humanity is undoubtably tied to our religious past..

Where I am comming from however is the fact that religion has limited our growth.
Religion/belief/faith has been used to control the masses thoughout history.. I'm not saying that all of the evil in the world his a result of religions, but what I am saying is that imo much of the evil and wrong-doings of today can be blamed on religion.. And if religion didn't exist in our past I can imagine that Humanity would be on a higher level of existence.. God is used a good excuse to murder your neighbours or take that which doesn't belong to you because of religious belief.. That imo is a good enough reason to say that religion has made the world Worse off.
How do you remove religiousity from human spirituality and the other drivers of religion such as the psychology which causes people to join groups of like minded people and to fear differnce.

IMO if you took religiousity out from humanity, it would also remove creativity imagination  and that sense of wonder and questioning which makes us all that we are. I just cant see how we could attain a higher level of existence without those things. For me personally, the higher level of existence, and being all thatIi can be involves linking myslef with the cosmic consciousness to become one with god, the universe, and all sapient life. What makes us able to reach a higher level of existence is the same thing which makes us spiritual, and thus religious, beings. And finally, we wouldnt have the worlds greatest and most enduring art, music, buildings, poetry etc., if we were not spiritual/religious people.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#20    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 17,137 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

Posted 23 February 2013 - 01:06 PM

I guess it depends on what religion.


#21    Hugh

Hugh

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,946 posts
  • Joined:17 Nov 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto

  • We are much more than we seem to be. :)

Posted 23 February 2013 - 05:16 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 23 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

How do you remove religiousity from human spirituality and the other drivers of religion such as the psychology which causes people to join groups of like minded people and to fear differnce.

IMO if you took religiousity out from humanity, it would also remove creativity imagination  and that sense of wonder and questioning which makes us all that we are. I just cant see how we could attain a higher level of existence without those things. For me personally, the higher level of existence, and being all thatIi can be involves linking myslef with the cosmic consciousness to become one with god, the universe, and all sapient life. What makes us able to reach a higher level of existence is the same thing which makes us spiritual, and thus religious, beings. And finally, we wouldnt have the worlds greatest and most enduring art, music, buildings, poetry etc., if we were not spiritual/religious people.

Primative societies needed religion, evolved societies rely much more on spirituality.

In the distant future there will be no need for religion.

It is spirituality that drives the highest of our beneficent achievements.


#22    GreenmansGod

GreenmansGod

    Mostly Harmless

  • Member
  • 11,356 posts
  • Joined:23 Jun 2004
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Hurricane State

  • May the laughter ye give today return to thee 3 fold.

Posted 23 February 2013 - 05:35 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 23 February 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

Most people dont understand the real purpose of religion. This goes for both religious and non. If you could see it correctly its the best thing in the world.
What is the purpose of religion?

View PostHugh, on 23 February 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

Primative societies needed religion, evolved societies rely much more on spirituality.

In the distant future there will be no need for religion.

It is spirituality that drives the highest of our beneficent achievements.

If you look at the religion of Aboriginal people I find they are spiritual for the most part.  I think fundamental dogma has really killed the spirituality of modern religions.  I think that kind of religion will fall to the wayside and a more spiritual out look will develop. I see it happening now in my tiny view of the world.

"The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost; for none now live who remember it."  Galadriel

#23    rashore

rashore

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • 8,276 posts
  • Joined:26 Feb 2010
  • Gender:Female

Posted 23 February 2013 - 05:37 PM

Both. Religion has always been relevant and the world is both better and worse off in various ways because of it.

Your ad hominem connotes your sciolism. Now that is some funny commentary.

#24    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 17,137 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

Posted 23 February 2013 - 05:38 PM

It is interesting to me that English has two words, "religion," and "religiosity," which mean the same thing but also mean things almost opposite.


#25    freetoroam

freetoroam

    Honourary member of the UM asylum

  • Member
  • 10,338 posts
  • Joined:11 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:rivers and canals of England and Wales.

  • If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth!

Posted 23 February 2013 - 05:56 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 23 February 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

Most people dont understand the real purpose of religion. This goes for both religious and non. If you could see it correctly its the best thing in the world.
And some do not chose religion because they DO understand the real purpose.
But as has been pointed out, it all depends on the religion.

Christians did not get to were they are today without slaughtering a few on its way and indoctrinating the rest who survived.
Today we have islam throwing their religious weight around.

To me, they are all part of a religion, something i think this world would be far better without. If you need someone to listen to you, there are enough humans on this planet out there who are willing to do that.  But if you can not or do not want to trust a fellow human, (jesus was a human being too) then get a pet.

Edited by freetoroam, 23 February 2013 - 05:59 PM.


#26    Professor T

Professor T

    3 of 7

  • Member
  • 2,579 posts
  • Joined:11 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:between

  • I'm not really a Professor so don't take my words as Gospel

Posted 23 February 2013 - 07:35 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 23 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

How do you remove religiousity from human spirituality and the other drivers of religion such as the psychology which causes people to join groups of like minded people and to fear differnce.

IMO if you took religiousity out from humanity, it would also remove creativity imagination  and that sense of wonder and questioning which makes us all that we are. I just cant see how we could attain a higher level of existence without those things. For me personally, the higher level of existence, and being all thatIi can be involves linking myslef with the cosmic consciousness to become one with god, the universe, and all sapient life. What makes us able to reach a higher level of existence is the same thing which makes us spiritual, and thus religious, beings. And finally, we wouldnt have the worlds greatest and most enduring art, music, buildings, poetry etc., if we were not spiritual/religious people.

As far as I'm aware, creativity, imagination and inventions are not products of religion. On the contary, it may very well be the case that religion is a product of humanity, and not the other way round.. This is a difficult one question to ponder, but in defining whether religion has made the world (Humanity) better off, shouldn't we first define what it is to be human?

I'll wager that everone on this thread has a different definition of what it is to be human..
Art, Music, poetry, these are imo human creative processes that are hyjacked by religion in many cases..
Invention, this process of creation is born of nesessity and not because some deity said so..
Buildings were made my human minds and hands. The only difference between a brothel and a cathedral is the dogma that defines it..

Edited by Professor T, 23 February 2013 - 07:37 PM.


#27    SpiritWriter

SpiritWriter

  • Member
  • 4,198 posts
  • Joined:21 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:in the ground

  • Hi! :-)

Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:11 PM

View PostDarkwind, on 23 February 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:


What is the purpose of religion?


To pass down the spiritual practices and teachings of the previous generations to aid the younger generation, or those who are seeking spiritual knowledge to experience the higher wisdom/connection to the holy spirit for themselves. Pass down tradition, celebrate god, be a resource of spiritual power.

Edited by SpiritWriter, 23 February 2013 - 08:13 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#28    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 19,354 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:11 AM

View PostHugh, on 23 February 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

Primative societies needed religion, evolved societies rely much more on spirituality.

In the distant future there will be no need for religion.

It is spirituality that drives the highest of our beneficent achievements.

But religion  is merely the way people codify and group beliefs. A child will create its own religion, left to itself, by acting on the presumption of its internal beliefs about the nature of its world.. People then then join groups which most closely represent their own spiritual beiefs or ideas about the nature of self, world, and the connections between the two. A person alone can be spiritual or religious but put a number of people together and religions or groupings of belief will evolve.

In a thousand years or ten thousand, humans will still have beliefs and religions based around the nature of humanity and the universe. Humans may be transformed physically beyond recognition and living among the stars, but still they will be spiritual and thus religious.

I do not see that primitive societies NEEDED religion more tha us ; religion then helped explain much that was inexplicable  Today it does the same, but that which is inexplicable has changed..

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#29    Solipsi Rai

Solipsi Rai

    ...from the Desert...

  • Member
  • 2,865 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Palm Desert, Cal US America

  • he's Native and Indio-geneous to the Americas.

Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:13 AM

The concept of religion is about what a person believes or feels are true, but for organized religion is a society of persons sharing a common faith express that together in a larger mass form. What religion has taught us not only to have sense of morality, but religion in the past has promoted ignorance to supressed scientific knowledge, intolerance and vengeance against those with differing beliefs; and religion made certain subjects or things taboo out of fear it can clash with the organized religious authorities.

I don't adhere to organized religion nor attend any church out of my choice not to, but I respect other religious opinions such as my relatives and my wife's family. I had friends too who may attend churches and services, which is up to them. I just don't like some people use religion as an excuse to harm others and a tool of oppression onto others, which why our government has a strong sense of the separation of church and state to prevent religion (any church or denomination) from becoming the law of the land.

:innocent: The Truth is Out There - the X Files. :alien:

#30    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 19,354 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:48 AM

View PostProfessor T, on 23 February 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

As far as I'm aware, creativity, imagination and inventions are not products of religion. On the contary, it may very well be the case that religion is a product of humanity, and not the other way round.. This is a difficult one question to ponder, but in defining whether religion has made the world (Humanity) better off, shouldn't we first define what it is to be human?

I'll wager that everone on this thread has a different definition of what it is to be human..
Art, Music, poetry, these are imo human creative processes that are hyjacked by religion in many cases..
Invention, this process of creation is born of nesessity and not because some deity said so..
Buildings were made my human minds and hands. The only difference between a brothel and a cathedral is the dogma that defines it..

My point was that religion flows from human spirituality, and human spirituality is an integral part of the way humans think neurologically, like creativity imagination and logic. To 'get rid of" religion you would have to "get rid of spirituaity" and to do that you owuld have to modify human  thought processes, thus eliminating imagination creativity etc.  
It is like trying to get rid of our ability to hate and  yet not touching our ability to love.
All we can do is learn how to use religion productively. After all we have to be taught how to use logic and philosophy productively so why not theology and religious thinking We ahve to be taught discipline in other areas so why not in religion and spiritual thinking.
What makes and defines humans is our self aware sapience. Everything else about us flows from this. Once we become aware of us it drives everything we do, where as without it we are driven by genetic and biological impulses like all other animals OR we are so damaged that while classified as human, biologically, we have none of the qualities of humanity. eg we cant think, speak, or be aware of the nature of self /others life /death,  the linear nature of time, causal effect and consequence, etc etc.
Religion because of its deep inner drieing power motivates humans much more than logic or rTason this has good and bad consequences but it drives many of the great creative and passionate group and singlar endeavours of mankind. The first music was spiritual and religious the first stories were spiritual and religious the first art was spiritual and religious.  Stonehenge, the pyramids, many of the greatest buildings in europe,  and a huge amount of great art and literature would not exist without religion.

Without religions we might not have developed sociological structures such as nuclear families tribes, groups and nations. In europe only a singular religion stopped constant warfare, tamed groups like the vikings huns goths etc. and allowed the growth of  powerful nation states. Of course when religions came into conflict it was equally destructive. But without the unification of christian europe, the mongols (who were not driven by religious aspirations) would almost certainly have overun it, and our history would be entirely different.

Edited by Mr Walker, 24 February 2013 - 12:56 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users