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Poll, Has religion made the world better?


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Poll: Does religion make the world a better place? (57 member(s) have cast votes)

Has religion made the world better or worse?

  1. Better (11 votes [19.30%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.30%

  2. Worse (38 votes [66.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 66.67%

  3. It is irrelevant and does neither. (8 votes [14.04%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.04%

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#61    freetoroam

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:36 PM

Chess and the fountain pen? come on!!!!

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#62    Ryu

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:43 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 23 February 2013 - 01:11 AM, said:

and spirituality leads naturally to religion.

Spirituality has nothing to do with religion..the two terms are not synonymous.
Religion is merely a organization filled with memorized rituals whereas 'spirituality' deals with how we relate to the world and how our views affect us and others.

Anyways, I voted 'irrelevant' only because while I detest religion I also know that people use their religion to rationalize whatever they do be it good or bad rather than understanding that real actions have real re-actions.


#63    eight bits

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 05:50 PM

Knight

Quote

am not here to give history lessons

Just as well. "The Golden Age of Islam" is a controversial interpretation of the years from 750-ish through the next four or five centuries. The Christian Europeam Byzantine Empire (the Eastern Roman Empire) survived the end of the "Golden Age" by two centuries, maybe three.

There's nothing unusual in world history about a militarily successful empire acquiring culture from the gentler peoples it subjugates, nor is providing a common language for commerce and scholarship an unsual side effect of wide-spread domination. The ancient Romans took much fom the Greeks and Egyptians they put under their heel, and promoted Greek as a lingua franca.

Posted Image

#64    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:26 PM

View Posteight bits, on 24 February 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

Knight



Just as well. "The Golden Age of Islam" is a controversial interpretation of the years from 750-ish through the next four or five centuries. The Christian Europeam Byzantine Empire (the Eastern Roman Empire) survived the end of the "Golden Age" by two centuries, maybe three.

There's nothing unusual in world history about a militarily successful empire acquiring culture from the gentler peoples it subjugates, nor is providing a common language for commerce and scholarship an unsual side effect of wide-spread domination. The ancient Romans took much fom the Greeks and Egyptians they put under their heel, and promoted Greek as a lingua franca.
throughout history nations have succeed one another
and each one of them came under certain religion
and each one of them have contributed for advancement of knowledge
they take they improve they invent new things
till it reached the level we have today ? am i wrong so far ?

now what appears to me very distasteful is the way
the islamic nation contributions are overlooked on purpose
due to the bad image given to muslims for political reasons
every nation have a time to contribute to the world
and when the time came for islamic nation to make that contribution
islamic nation did it more than it's part and done it perfectly
and history support that .. or what's left of it does
for the bigger part went poof or changed ownership

do you disagree that islamic empire has made just as much contributions
to humanity as whole during it's golden ages ?
just as much any other nation or empires ?

but all you hear now about muslims is the two scenrios
- the bad scenrio is when muslims portrayed as terrorists , jihadist , murderers
- the good scenrio is when muslims portrayed as " alleged " terrorists , jihadist , murderers

if we want to look at islam true idenity .. let's look how islam was
during it's golden ages during the islamic empire .. that's islam

but why deliberate blind eye and denial remains on islamic contributions
is simply beyond me as ignorance is not excuse for everyone have access to history

notice : sorry for typos if they exist i been trying to sleep since 6 hours :D

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#65    freetoroam

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:36 PM

if we want to look at islam true idenity .. let's look how islam was
during it's golden ages during the islamic empire .. that's islam


No one is denying that the muslims have contributed, we are just saying they are not the be all and end of of knowledge.


I do not see the muslims looking at how islam was during the golden ages during the islamic empire when i see what is going on in many of those countries today, eg: Egypt, so why ask us to when they are not even doing it themselves?

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#66    freetoroam

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:38 PM

Sorry, but if islam was the real islam during the golden ages, then it did not teach their next generation very well.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#67    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:38 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 24 February 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

if we want to look at islam true idenity .. let's look how islam was
during it's golden ages during the islamic empire .. that's islam


No one is denying that the muslims have contributed, we are just saying they are not the be all and end of of knowledge.


I do not see the muslims looking at how islam was during the golden ages during the islamic empire when i see what is going on in many of those countries today, eg: Egypt, so why ask us to when they are not even doing it themselves?
you're fine example of denying above in a previous page you denied that islam had ANY good influence on you " europeans "
you only admitted after you got cornered :P " smirks "

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#68    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:40 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 24 February 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Sorry, but if islam was the real islam during the golden ages, then it did not teach their next generation very well.
no need to apologize i enjoy good debates just as long they are reasonable
islam is more than what you see on tv

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#69    freetoroam

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:41 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 24 February 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

you're fine example of denying above in a previous page you denied that islam had ANY good influence on you " europeans "
you only admitted after you got cornered :P " smirks "
Cornered? what by a fountain pen and a chess board? Posted Image

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#70    freetoroam

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:44 PM

View PostKnight Of Shadows, on 24 February 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

no need to apologize i enjoy good debates just as long they are reasonable
islam is more than what you see on tv

I know, I was living in London during the tube (this affected me) and bus bombings, t.v was not my only witness!

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#71    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 06:52 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 24 February 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

I know, I was living in London during the tube (this affected me) and bus bombings, t.v was not my only witness!
what you witness now is the reaction of many years living in oppression under foreign countries
when foreign countries came and conqured islamic countries that were part of islamic empire they were not as merciful as muslims conquests
this oppression changed some people's mind to exteremists
notice the " some " which means very small percentage of muslims
that doesn't make what they do right .. neither islam support their actions
but none the less .. they are results of foreign countries actions
and that small percentage is what they show you on media only
they only show you the guy burning flags .. or the guy screaming his lung out all non-muslims go to hell

i for one would like to see on tv a muslim on news just baking cookies .. yes we got cookies
without following it with flash news that cookie bomb just exploded in widely inhabitant area

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#72    freetoroam

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:28 PM

i am anti war.
Every man has a right to defend his country.
But those who did the bombings were not defending "their" country, they were living in England as British citizens. They killed and injured innocent people in the name of islam. There is absolutely no excuse for that. Like there is no excuse for a muslim person to be killed in their own country in the name of war! all of that disgusts me, But we got attacked here by people living here.
After all these years of wars down to religion, today we have the islamists still killing in the name of religion. there is no doubt the other religions have done their fair share of murders, hence the reason I do not follow religion.
It does not mean that all the people are bad, and we can not blame everyone for the murderers, but as for the religion itself, it is not for me and today it happens to be the islamists who are doing what so many people have died in the past to stop....even muslims in their own country.
England is not a muslim country, so when we have a few shouting their hatred towards the west, I think: not another load of religious freaks!! (this time they happen to be muslim) but rest assured if they were another cult, i would feel the same.,

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#73    Everdred

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:45 PM

The problem with the idea of these "Islamic" contributions to the world is that it takes the contributions of many people who happened to be Muslims and attributes it to Islam.

The historical reality is that the Arabs, after concocting that religion, were driven to war and expanded rapidly, conquering peoples living in the remnants of the highly advanced Roman Empire.  The Arabs imposed laws making conversion to Islam a very smart socioeconomic choice, and so most people, being not especially bound to their faiths, converted, and then went back to studying the same philosophy and science they had been before the conquest.  But then, starting in the 14th century, an increasingly anti-science trend emerged in Islam and eventually it became heretical and illegal to study things other than the Quran, and thus Islamic society stagnated and was rapidly surpassed by other societies without such religious constrictions.

So in fact Islam has clearly been a force against advancement.  It was only in the period when Islam did not seek to religiously influence study that advancement occurred.


#74    Knight Of Shadows

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:03 PM

View PostEverdred, on 24 February 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

The problem with the idea of these "Islamic" contributions to the world is that it takes the contributions of many people who happened to be Muslims and attributes it to Islam.

The historical reality is that the Arabs, after concocting that religion, were driven to war and expanded rapidly, conquering peoples living in the remnants of the highly advanced Roman Empire.  The Arabs imposed laws making conversion to Islam a very smart socioeconomic choice, and so most people, being not especially bound to their faiths, converted, and then went back to studying the same philosophy and science they had been before the conquest.  But then, starting in the 14th century, an increasingly anti-science trend emerged in Islam and eventually it became heretical and illegal to study things other than the Quran, and thus Islamic society stagnated and was rapidly surpassed by other societies without such religious constrictions.

So in fact Islam has clearly been a force against advancement.  It was only in the period when Islam did not seek to religiously influence study that advancement occurred.
the most denying is that islam done nothing new and only took what others had .. wrong
this is most debateable point
remember when islam had it's run europe was in dark ages
and they introduced many new things which unfortunatly went unreconized and overlooked
but still history is quite evidence that islam not only took what others had before . it improved .. and created new things

islam went downhill by ignorance of some and " Mostly " by outside repeated invasions
when mongols invaded bagdad the river turned black 7 days coz of the amount of books thrown in it by mongols
and at the end of ottoman empire the islamic empire was divided into smaller countries between england , france , italiy and such
that's how it went downhill .. not to mention previous crusades that wore it down too

Edited by Knight Of Shadows, 24 February 2013 - 09:06 PM.

by the name of Allah the Gracious the Merciful
Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak From the evil of that which He created
And from the evil of darkness when it settles And from the evil of the blowers in knots
And from the evil of an envier when he envies"
truthful was Allah The Most High And Great


#75    Professor T

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:08 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 24 February 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

If we were not fighting over religion, we would still be fighting - people seem to be in a constant battle for supremacy and ownership of what is "right".  "You are wrong I am right and therefore I deserve the riches of this life and eternity and you do not".  This is the hidden mantra of the masses who kill and fight in every generation to this day, there was and always will be a reason to battle for supremacy and justice over those that are "wrong" about something.

As a believer, I believe in God, I believe God believes in Humanity - all of humanity, I can question why things are as they are but I cannot claim to know.

Which is why I voted "worse" because religion is used for Control & Confromity..





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