Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Do you think " humans " are over populated?


  • Please log in to reply
146 replies to this topic

#61    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,928 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:32 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 26 February 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

That the earth and its carrying capacity are finite are obvious, and has been said over and over for several hundred years.  One day the wolf-criers will have to be right.  Wolves do exist.

What I see for the near future is continued progress similar to the last century in improving people's lives all over the world, some countries doing better at it than others -- generally for internal cultural reasons.

At some point population will be stable and resource usage will become indefinitely sustainable.  We are fast headed that way, and we won't even have to go into space to do it (although that would be a nice bonus).

Now all we have to do is keep the world's political leadership reasonably sane for a few more decades.
This statement ignores the already abundent evidence of impacts on the planetart ecosystem. we are not doing fine, we are not increasing overall prosperity. More people live in poverty now than ever before, more species are going extinct, more systems are saturated in pollutants such that their productivity is crashing, a significant amount of the crop land we rely on to survive is in terminal decline.

We are not improving unless you measure improvement by the size of your TV screen.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#62    Tutankhaten-pasheri

Tutankhaten-pasheri

    Buratinologist

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,637 posts
  • Joined:22 Sep 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:страна дураков

Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:41 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 28 February 2013 - 02:05 AM, said:

The US actually has coal and shale oil for several hundred more years, but when the rest of the world begins to demand it, we'll sell at the right price and then that will be gone too.

When it is gone it will be gone. Unless we invent a Star Trek matter reorganizer, we'll be out of luck within 200 years. Personnally, I plan to live almost that long, so I am not convinced with Pie-in-the-Sky hopeful wishes.
And just one of the coal mines at Kemerovo is estimated enough coal to supply all the worlds current needs for 300 years. And there are many coal mines at Kemerovo.....


#63    Render

Render

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,080 posts
  • Joined:23 Nov 2009
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:51 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 28 February 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Predicting the future is chancy, and things will happen we never imagined.  Still, it seems to me we are best off putting our chips on the side that says humanity has a good future.  I think all the doomsters are too caught up in their navels and not looking at the real world

Very well said.


All these people here that claim everyone is just standing by and hoping for the best, although as i've mentioned before, all kinds of efforts are being made for a great future. Just realise that what you people are doing, which is actually standing by and not doing anything except think up doomscenarios, is absolutely not helping anyone.


#64    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,928 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:03 PM

View PostRender, on 28 February 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

Very well said.


All these people here that claim everyone is just standing by and hoping for the best, although as i've mentioned before, all kinds of efforts are being made for a great future. Just realise that what you people are doing, which is actually standing by and not doing anything except think up doomscenarios, is absolutely not helping anyone.
And yet the ecosystem is still declining as we speak, so you hopes for a bright future are based on a declining planetary support system and increasing extinction rate. I am a trained scientist working in the field of habitat preservation - but my efforts will do almost nothing in the face of another 3billion people. I am not a doomsayer - I am an activist and a realist.

Br cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#65    Michelle

Michelle

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 14,582 posts
  • Joined:03 Jan 2004
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Tennessee

  • Eleanor Roosevelt: Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:17 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 28 February 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

I think raising children is the main force in most people's lives, and I feel for those who dismiss it.

Don't feel bad for us...we thouroghly enjoy ourselves. :tu:  We think they are cute and have a good time being around them, but it's nice when they go home and we don't have to deal with the drama. :D

I kind of feel sorry for people that don't have anything connecting them but their kids.

Edited by Michelle, 28 February 2013 - 10:21 PM.


#66    Sakari

Sakari

    tohi

  • Member
  • 11,999 posts
  • Joined:16 Aug 2009
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Safford, Arizona

  • Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Posted 01 March 2013 - 12:54 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 28 February 2013 - 10:03 PM, said:

And yet the ecosystem is still declining as we speak, so you hopes for a bright future are based on a declining planetary support system and increasing extinction rate. I am a trained scientist working in the field of habitat preservation - but my efforts will do almost nothing in the face of another 3billion people. I am not a doomsayer - I am an activist and a realist.

Br cornelius

I am not a professional, but above states it best for me.

Glad to see someone here posting that has studied this... :tu:

Our Wolf's Memorial Page

http://petsupports.com/a04/sakari.htm


#67    DieChecker

DieChecker

    I'm a Rogue Scholar

  • Member
  • 17,150 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portland, Oregon, USA

  • Hey, I'm not wrong. I'm just not completely right.

Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:53 AM

View PostRender, on 28 February 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:


Which is why a myriad of efforts are being made from different fields in science, politics, and more .. as a strategy.

The world isn't just sitting by twidling its thumbs, cmon.
And so what is actually being done to slow down world population growth by Science, Politics and More?? Condoms in Africa? What is actually going on is better sanitation and health care is migrating worldwide, and actually allowing more children to survive to adulthood, and allowing people ot live longer. What actually is reducing population is Standard of Living. People in the "Industrialized" nations like having their big TV and 2 cars and hot tub, and lots of vacations. All of which is much harder to have if you have 6 or 8 kids. One or two kids is ideal for the Western Lifestyle of eating out and vacations and consumerism. That is what is driving down the growth rates... IMHO.

View PostBr Cornelius, on 28 February 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

I had my two children before I fully informed myself about the problem of overpopulation. It took another 10 years and a degree in environmental science to really grasp the magnitude of the problem. If I had my time over I would serious consider making a different choice. However the consequence would be that I would be married to another women since my wife would have in no way considered the option of been childless.

Br Cornelius
The problem with that is since you don't have kids and raise them to conserve, Conservation falls on the kids of people who totally don't care and have as many kids as they can.

Having 2 kids and teaching them to conserve and not be Total Consumers is probably what everyone should aim at. Intellegent people not having kids just lets the ignornent Breeders numerially take over.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#68    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 13,020 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • fmerton.blogspot.com

Posted 01 March 2013 - 08:34 AM

I have to say that conservation and environmentalism have ideological and even cultist aspects, and this greatly diminishes the credibility of scientific and genuine efforts and the seeming unwillingness of some people to recognize the great progress that has happened already and that many of the problems are on the way to solution.

The excessive negativity that we see is one example.  Another is the seeming effort to get people to not "sin" against the environment and the expression of these issues in either moral or semi-religious vocabulary.


#69    Jinxdom

Jinxdom

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 720 posts
  • Joined:06 Sep 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:East Coast

  • Education...has produced a vast population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading.
    -- G.M. Trevelyan

Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:32 AM

I used to think the world was overpopulated with humans because of group showers but later I realized that I can always find food to eat, a place to live, and water to drink, and a group shower that is a tad bit more exclusive, simply by moving to a difference place, regardless of how trapped I felt.

I think the idea of our population problem is just the Politically Correct hey we know something is wrong with the world and people but we don't have a clue on what it is.

So no I don't think the world is overpopulated by humans, but leaders on the other hand we have way too many.

Edited by Jinxdom, 01 March 2013 - 09:33 AM.


#70    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,928 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 01 March 2013 - 09:42 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 01 March 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

I have to say that conservation and environmentalism have ideological and even cultist aspects, and this greatly diminishes the credibility of scientific and genuine efforts and the seeming unwillingness of some people to recognize the great progress that has happened already and that many of the problems are on the way to solution.

The excessive negativity that we see is one example.  Another is the seeming effort to get people to not "sin" against the environment and the expression of these issues in either moral or semi-religious vocabulary.
You should try telling that to a trained ecologist who is actually mapping the decline in ecosystems. The stats don't lie.

It is a debating tactic to try to label the opposition as fanatical cultists.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#71    Jinxdom

Jinxdom

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 720 posts
  • Joined:06 Sep 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:East Coast

  • Education...has produced a vast population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading.
    -- G.M. Trevelyan

Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:12 AM

If you are trained in only one aspect of a field you can't get real idea of what is wrong, you get his opinion of what is wrong.

You do that for every single field out there when it comes to the pollution problem, it is going to seem like a mess when in actuality there could be nothing wrong.

I have the worst problem, generally grants more money for research r support from rest of us then saying,well this problem isn't that bad but it exists.

So yeah that bias definitely plays a huge part on what is believable.  

Stats do lie if you look at them wrong.


#72    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 13,020 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • fmerton.blogspot.com

Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:14 AM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 01 March 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

It is a debating tactic to try to label the opposition as fanatical cultists.

Br Cornelius
I don't need to; the do the job for me.

I remember when Cleveland's river caught fire; those things don't happen any more.  I look at the skyline of HCMC now and the air is much better, we have "ecoparks" all over the place, there are all sorts of regulations about pollution emissions all over the world, I could go on and on.


#73    Br Cornelius

Br Cornelius

    Omnipotent Entity

  • Member
  • 9,928 posts
  • Joined:13 Aug 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eire

  • Stupid Monkeys.

    Life Sucks.
    Get over it.

Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:51 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 01 March 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

I don't need to; the do the job for me.

I remember when Cleveland's river caught fire; those things don't happen any more.  I look at the skyline of HCMC now and the air is much better, we have "ecoparks" all over the place, there are all sorts of regulations about pollution emissions all over the world, I could go on and on.
Measures of direct pollution events such as you are talking about are in decline in America and Europe (but not China), but that is not what I am talking about here.
Measuring wild populations of a whole range of species and you will see at least a 40% decline in most over the last 30years alone. That is a clear indicator that man is stressing the fabric of life on this planet. The fact that superficially everything looks cleaner than it was tells you almost nothing about many of the persistent pollutants and the erosion of natural habitat as mans increasing population grabs a progressively greater share of the land resources for himself.

Nature cannot be preserved in ecoparks because they are islands which doesn't allow robust populations to thrive - nature needs its own space to roam and cross pollinate. The ecopark concept has been shown to be a relative failure and it is now recognized that they can only work if they are linked as networks of unenclosed spaces. This isn't yet happening.


Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 01 March 2013 - 10:54 AM.

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#74    mysticwerewolf

mysticwerewolf

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 406 posts
  • Joined:27 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:lost in space without a paddle. ( or any PU-238)

  • let thy insanity keep thee sane, but if that doesn't work then go fishing... I need to go fishing real Real bad!.. catch a big one

Posted 01 March 2013 - 10:54 AM

http://www.worldomet...rld-population/  

  ^ world population up to the minute^


#75    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,412 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 01 March 2013 - 05:01 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 28 February 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

I had my two children before I fully informed myself about the problem of overpopulation. It took another 10 years and a degree in environmental science to really grasp the magnitude of the problem. If I had my time over I would serious consider making a different choice. However the consequence would be that I would be married to another women since my wife would have in no way considered the option of been childless.

Br Cornelius
So you let your wife off the hook and come here and give republicans this much hell about the environment instead?  That's not right, on so many levels!  

At least make sure they're not childless or sterile or gay or asexual or sexually inactive or just plain sexually undesirable before getting all politically correct on them like that.   :P

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users