44 replies to this topic

[shrooma]

a quantum fluctuation of this type can happen at ANY time, not just billions of years into the future.
one could be happening right now.
one could've happened thousands of years ago, millions of light years away, and our universe is being swallowed up as we speak.
there ARE no time restrictions on events like these, or, by definition, they wouldn't BE quantum events.

[Darkwind]

Lord Vetinari, on 24 February 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

And this is why they've spent billions on this Higgs-Boson thing? What is the actual point of any of this?

Next person who says this I am personally going to go to their house and rip their computer out of wall and toss it in the trash. There is no point owning one. It must be a total waste of science, electricity, time and money.

[CrimsonKing]

Darkwind, on 24 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Next person who says this I am personally going to go to their house and rip their computer out of wall and toss it in the trash. There is no point owning one. It must be a total waste of science, electricity, time and money.

[Frank Merton]

The universe is a free lunch and this looks like when the bill comes.

I would observe that this will be a quantum event, and therefore random.  That they've made estimates of the time frame involved tells me they have some idea of the odds, but I did not actually see any given.

Those making points that this work could lead to all sorts of amazing things for the future need only point to how electromagnetic research was so pointless in the nineteenth century.

[shrooma]

Frank Merton, on 24 February 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Those making points that this work could lead to all sorts of amazing things for the future need only point to how electromagnetic research was so pointless in the nineteenth century.

.
was that sarcasm?

[Twinkle Arora is back]

Lord Vetinari, on 24 February 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

And this is why they've spent billions on this Higgs-Boson thing? What is the actual point of any of this?

As with many other past discoveries we see that at that point in time, like when electricity was discovered did anyone think that one day things like smartphones and laptops and computers will ever exist?, it would have sounded bizarre at that time.
The thing is that I believe that it is very important for us to know the universe works and all its potentials that we can harness to sustain our species.
I may not be able to explain it now but I am sure all these discoveries will surely play an important and viral role in future that we cannot even think of and imagine, at least of now.

[Frank Merton]

Sarcasm?  I was merely making the same point that Twinkle Aurora just made.

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

Darkwind, on 24 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Next person who says this I am personally going to go to their house and rip their computer out of wall and toss it in the trash. There is no point owning one. It must be a total waste of science, electricity, time and money.

I've noticed this often seems to be the response from people who know all about Quantum of Solace Fluctuations, and look own their nose at the irrational science haters who don't punch the air in exultation at every new discovery. Perhaps one reason that people don't might be because it's often very difficult for anyone to have the faintest idea what it all means.  If you could perhaps explain to irrational science haters (and I bet they're all Creationists as well) what this means exactly, I'm sure everyone will be all ears.

[Frank Merton]

Lord Vetinari, on 24 February 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

If you could perhaps explain to irrational science haters (and I bet they're all Creationists as well) what this means exactly, I'm sure everyone will be all ears.

Now from what you've posted I've got a good idea you understand much of this as well as the rest of us.

That said, let me just say that there are many reasons people have different views of the world, and ignorance and stupidity and religious dogmatism are among them.  With regard to the specific thing here -- the spending of big bucks on big science by uncomprehending taxpayers, I think it makes some sense.  Scientists are as interested in posh retirements as anyone else.  It's kinda hard to support mass taxpayer support for things that private investors avoid.  The reason of course is that private investors necessarily have a much shorter time horizon (they want a quick return), so the state or combinations of states must do this sort of work.

[shrooma]

Frank Merton, on 24 February 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Sarcasm?  I was merely making the same point that Twinkle Aurora just made.

.
better worded next time then maybe?

[Frank Merton]

Maybe more carefully read.

[shrooma]

Frank Merton, on 24 February 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Those making points that this work could lead to all sorts of amazing things for the future need only point to how electromagnetic research was so pointless in the nineteenth century.

.
this doesn't mean what you think it means frank.
what it means, is that electromagnetic research in the nineteenth century was pointless, which is why I asked if you were being sarcastic.
so please, stop trying to be a smart-ass, it doesn't suit you.

[third_eye]

it is to stop more money from pouring into that bottomless F35 pit

where as this research would pave the path to the ultimate weapon of self defense, a weapon that will only kill enemies.


~edit : death of the grammarian

Edited by third_eye, 24 February 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[sepulchrave]

Frank Merton, on 24 February 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

I would observe that this will be a quantum event, and therefore random.  That they've made estimates of the time frame involved tells me they have some idea of the odds, but I did not actually see any given.

There doesn't seem to be much technical information on this story. The basis for the story is a talk given at the AAAS meeting, but there are no details other than an abstract

I imagine there will be a scientific article published soon though.

But basically this is just theorists doing what they are supposed to be doing; the standard model + string theory has lots of "bells and whistles", and at the moment there is not enough experimental evidence to rule out many of them. So when one new piece of information is learned (such as a plausible mass for the Higgs boson - and remember we are not completely sure that it WAS the Higgs boson that they saw in the LHC) theorists try to figure out all the ways this can impact their theories.

And if they find something dramatic, they report it. Dr. Lykken talked about his finding at an AAAS meeting (an appropriate venue for this sort of scientifically justified speculation, in my opinion), the BBC picked it up and reported it from there.

What is missing from the BBC article is the debate which almost certainly happened after Dr. Lykken's talk (during the formal question period and probably during subsequent coffee sessions) between Dr. Lykken and other theorists about whether his calculations were correct, or justified, or possible, etc.

[Horus Christos]

I postulate that the new bubble universe would expand greater than the speed of light by incorporating all or parts of the universe it was expanding into, which explains the inflationy-model of our own universe (it would be highly unlikely that we were the first cycle ever).  I hereby patent calling this the "big gulp" theory of cyclical universes.....