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Inequality in schools threatens US prosperity


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#31    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 06:08 AM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 27 February 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

Let's do an experiment. List the test scores of the least-funded school and the most-funded school in the USA. You might be surprised by the results. Maybe money isn't the answer to the problem.
Lets do an experiment that'll give you something worthwhile to consider - lets look at the classroom conditions (including resourcing and "extra-curricular" activities and material) of the lowest and highest funded schools. Maybe money's not the solution to SCORES but it's the damn solution to CONDITIONS.

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#32    Lilly

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:12 AM

Kids from the poorest areas generally have less community and family resources (as well as school resources). Seems rather obvious that any child growing up in such an environment already has a disadvantage, add to that school conditions that are sub-par...recipe for learning problems IMO.

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#33    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:32 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 27 February 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

Lets do an experiment that'll give you something worthwhile to consider - lets look at the classroom conditions (including resourcing and "extra-curricular" activities and material) of the lowest and highest funded schools. Maybe money's not the solution to SCORES but it's the damn solution to CONDITIONS.

I'll be more specific. Washington (our capital) schools get much more aid than Iowa schools. They once were the most aided and least aided schools in the country, respectively. Now, compare their scores in all academic categories.

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#34    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:21 AM

I'll be more specific.
I abhor standardised testing, all it leads to is teaching to the test.
I abhor linking financing to test scores, it disadvantages schools.
The problem is the obsesseion with scores and how they look on a spreadsheet.

the solution is giving schools enough money to not have leaky roofs, enough computers for the class, books, carpet, ideally a digital whiteboard (they're dirt cheap when you buy in bulk, and they're an amazing teaching tool), teachers paaid a good enough wage that they enjoy going to wrk (a grumpy teacher makes for an atmosphere of discontent in the classroom, the more discontented the less work done, the lower the achievement).

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#35    Uncle Sam

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:32 PM

Minorities are pretty much given free rides based on guilt. Most minorities I run into are extremely lazy, wants to live a gangster style, and they are using the race card to get away with anything. They don't aspire to rise up and become something, because they are used to living on social security welfare. There are some I see who is struggle to make something of themselves, these the types of people I rather hang with. It is not racist, I have no respect for someone who doesn't want to better himself, who will use degrading terms to get what they want, and rely on everyone else to keep them going.


View PostJinxdom, on 26 February 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Easiest fix would be to treat problem areas in to basically Job Corps. Where you get paid depending on an individuals success. Which is gasp a federal program and works very well for that problem demographic. I'd take money out of the defense budget to pay for it =D

You get fed housed and taught then rewarded for your success. If you screw up you are out. Most often prison because let's face it most of the students who went there were basically one step away from prison already. It could easily be reworked for a k - 12 program for lower income areas.

I went to job corps, because it was the only option left to get high school diploma. My parents moved around lots, so I lost tons of schooling time because of. Basically chose that options to get my high school diploma and degree in a certain course, since it was uncertain if I would get moved again or not.

Edited by Uncle Sam, 28 February 2013 - 07:37 PM.

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#36    Jinxdom

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:59 PM

I knew there was a reason I liked you. A Job Corps like school would solve the problem for the worst off areas though.


#37    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 04:03 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 28 February 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

I'll be more specific.
I abhor standardised testing, all it leads to is teaching to the test.
I abhor linking financing to test scores, it disadvantages schools.
The problem is the obsesseion with scores and how they look on a spreadsheet.

the solution is giving schools enough money to not have leaky roofs, enough computers for the class, books, carpet, ideally a digital whiteboard (they're dirt cheap when you buy in bulk, and they're an amazing teaching tool), teachers paaid a good enough wage that they enjoy going to wrk (a grumpy teacher makes for an atmosphere of discontent in the classroom, the more discontented the less work done, the lower the achievement).

I don't disagree with you. The fact that Iowa schools topped Washington schools shows that we should look at a wide range of solutions that aren't limited to just financing. Some of the problems come from the students and the teachers, themselves. All of the money in the world is useless if people refuse to learn. The tragedy is that some promising and talented boys and girls are surrounded by peers who mock them for their willingness to learn, and they are ridiculed when they are disciplined and studious. Add mediocre teachers to the detrimental students, and you see why many gifted children, especially in poor inner cities, are trapped in unfair circumstances. This is why charter schools have such long, strict waiting lists. It's a shame that all students can't be educated in Finnish schools with dedicated teachers.

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#38    DieChecker

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 07:12 AM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 01 March 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

I don't disagree with you. The fact that Iowa schools topped Washington schools shows that we should look at a wide range of solutions that aren't limited to just financing. Some of the problems come from the students and the teachers, themselves. All of the money in the world is useless if people refuse to learn. The tragedy is that some promising and talented boys and girls are surrounded by peers who mock them for their willingness to learn, and they are ridiculed when they are disciplined and studious. Add mediocre teachers to the detrimental students, and you see why many gifted children, especially in poor inner cities, are trapped in unfair circumstances. This is why charter schools have such long, strict waiting lists. It's a shame that all students can't be educated in Finnish schools with dedicated teachers.
So is leveling the funding of the schools really going to fix any of that?

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#39    Uncle Sam

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 01:08 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 01 March 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

So is leveling the funding of the schools really going to fix any of that?

Nope. As long as there is peers who are willing to look down on those who are willing to exceed in their studies, we are faced with an problem that in fact derives from pure pressure to fit in. The best way to fix this problem in the school is to change the atmosphere, to raise our children to succeed and feel comfortable with pushing themselves to exceed the expectations. Manipulating the children's environment, by making those who are the smartest and the brightest to become the most popular will actually make people strive to become a better student. We need popularity and status to be connected with grades instead of looks and sports, it is a very bad path we are going down with our school.

Students that want to focus on sports should be offered scholarships at all, because it is unfair and most teachers falsely give grades to those who lead them to championships. I hate seeing this and it is a mockery to those who obtain their scholarships without playing sports. This then unjustly allows most popular jackasses to attend any college they want, ending up with the same atmosphere that needs to be fixed. These people end up throwing parties and making it harder for those who come to succeed. The grade system also needs to be reworked to better suit the situation at hand, to help students obtain better grades and to see where they are failing, this allows students to correct their mistakes and become better. As for funding. It should be given to schools who show promise, but not before there is a internal investigation to determine their isn't any misuse of school money. We want to best for the children, to make them want to better themselves and to increase their knowledge across the board. To aspire and dream to be in college should be high on their lists, instead of getting laid or becoming popular if you understand where I am coming from.

Edited by Uncle Sam, 01 March 2013 - 01:19 PM.

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#40    J. K.

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Posted 01 March 2013 - 02:54 PM

View PostUncle Sam, on 01 March 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Manipulating the children's environment, by making those who are the smartest and the brightest to become the most popular will actually make people strive to become a better student. We need popularity and status to be connected with grades instead of looks and sports, it is a very bad path we are going down with our school.

That will never happen in this country.  Athletes are worshiped like gods.  When was the last time you saw a pep rally for a spelling bee, or sat in a stadium full of season ticket holders to watch the Debate Club?

Quote

Students that want to focus on sports should be offered scholarships at all, because it is unfair and most teachers falsely give grades to those who lead them to championships.
...because there are unwritten rules in the system: you do not fail an athlete; they must pass so they can play.


Edited by J. K., 01 March 2013 - 02:54 PM.

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#41    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 03:35 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 01 March 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

So is leveling the funding of the schools really going to fix any of that?

I doubt it. The problems go way beyond funding. That's not to say that it's acceptable for any public school to lack things like books and supplies. It's just that most solutions for educational woes aren't financial.

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#42    Rafterman

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 01:35 PM

View PostFurthurBB, on 26 February 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:


My husband is a liberal and that is the last thing he would want, so you can keep that inflammatory nonsense out of the dicussion.  Though I do agree that money is not the answer and what do you know, so does he.

Well then he's in the minority.  It's talked about all of the time here in New York as the libs bow to the altar of "social justice".

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#43    preacherman76

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:55 PM

View Postaztek, on 25 February 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

lol, the autor has no friggin idea what is going on in schools taday. he is pbly old fart that went to schools decades ago.

minority and poors are not treated any differently than richer majority.  

they underperform, becouse they are lazy, dumb f..ks, and have no interest in stdying, teachers have their hands tied behind the back, they can't do anyting to students, for missbehaving. detention, lol, they laugh at detention, and if you say something to minority student, they wil scream racist, and teacher gets in trobble.

anyone that thinks i'm wrong, feel free to talk to teachers that work in such schools today.

I havent read the rest of this thread, but im sure you already took a few hits for this post. I just want to say that the reason minorities are worse off in public schools is cause of a lack of parenting. And thats not even in every case, but it is in most cases, so even the few who have tried to raise thier families right, the neighborhood drags them down. Leaving only a small % of kids who make it out. I have a very clear view of this. I live inbetween one of the worst, and one of the best towns in NY. The school my son goes to is litteraly the best school district in the state. 75% of the kids who graduate attend some type of college after high school. On the other hand there is a getto just 10 mins away from that school district. High crime, fatherless kids, drugs, violence, ect ect ect. And that school district has a way bigger budget then the one my son attends. They have been trying to solve the problem with more and more money, only to see things get worse every year. Thier problems will all go away when thier fathers decide they love thier children more then they love, well, what ever it is that makes them abandon them.

And the federal government doesnt help anything. I was watching a show called gangland the other day. It was talking about gangs in Chicago. Once the jobs left the area back in the late 70's 95% of minorities ended up on federal welfare. One of the rules to get it was the fathers couldnt live with the family receiving it. There were litteraly fathers leaving who wanted to stay, just so thier kids could eat.

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#44    danielost

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:19 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 25 February 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

This has been going on for 30+ years in America that there ready to announce its ineffectiveness means they accomplished the agenda of an uneducated America. What will be replacing standardized testing. I predict indoctrination.

This is already taking place.  In Utah when teachers go on strike, some of the teachers take their students to the meetings.  Education needs to be returned the local people.

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#45    preacherman76

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:20 PM

View Posthatecraft, on 26 February 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

The defense budget is one of the few legitimate expenditures for federal tax dollars.

What??? The very term "defense budget" is a joke. Its more like empire budget. We spend nearly as much on military as the entire world combined does. That is a tragic waste of money. We are most likely just months away from a deserved economic collapse, and military spending is in the top 2 of reasons why.

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