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Monsato = evil, They will be the death of us


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#46    Br Cornelius

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:18 AM

Lets answer the simple question. What are the actual benefits of GMO crops as currently available ?
More important, what are the actual environmental costs as currently implemented ?

The second part is easy to answer - Roundup(glyphosphate) resistant superweeds which necessitate an overall increase in the use of herbicides.

Can someone supply some impartial evidence to support the claim that GMO's have increased productivity.

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#47    AsteroidX

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:23 AM

I support that if we continue this trend we will have world wide spray days of roundup.

Also no indigenous plants species left.


#48    Br Cornelius

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:18 AM

Here's another question which has a baring on what people actually believe to be the risks on genetic manipulation;

Would you submit yourself to a first generation human gene therapy ? Do you think its a safe enough technolog to allow human gene splicing ?

Br Cornelius

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#49    MichaelW

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:56 AM

View PostOrcseeker, on 28 February 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

Regardless, the way Monsanto do business isn't ethically or morally right at all.

Agreed. But writing off genetic engineering because of the actions of one company is ridiculous. It would be like saying don't by Toyota's because of user-error.

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#50    MichaelW

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:58 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 28 February 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

WHO: And our ruling is ... *gets handed a hundred million dollars* it's perfectly safe.

Saying the WHO is corrupt? How retarded do you have to be to believe this?

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#51    AsteroidX

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:59 AM

Not very considering the players involved specifically Monsanto. Nobody says that GMO food may not someday be a good thing but at the rate were going its all about the $$ and nothing about food. Theres much science and generational type testing that needs to be done to understand the long term effects on both Humans/Animals and crops.


#52    Orcseeker

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:46 AM

View PostMichaelW, on 28 February 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:



Agreed. But writing off genetic engineering because of the actions of one company is ridiculous. It would be like saying don't by Toyota's because of user-error.

That's true but I never claimed such. I don't actually have a problem with consuming most GM foods. I haven't exactly done extensive research as to what Monsanto have done to their seeds in regards to final product. So I am unable to make a comment on this ATM. The produce here in Australia isn't that potentially negatively impacted either so it's not much of a concern.


#53    OverSword

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:24 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 28 February 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

So, I'm still waiting for that Gigantic Leap in Death, Illness, Mental Damage, or other ill affects that the Doom sayers are predicting. It is true that it is impossible to predict what will happen long term, but it seems just as likely, or more so, that nothing will actually happen. Not every insecticide is DDT. Not every fertilizer is going to damage human chromosomes.

I do agree more testing needs to be done by impartial organizations, but this Doomsaying is just political propoganda. (Even if it is true!)
So the masses of kids with autism or the recent huge numbers of young women with breast cancer or the many many people suffering from ADHD and ADD and AADD don't qualify as the " Gigantic Leap in Death, Illness, Mental Damage, or other ill affects that the Doom sayers are predicting" that you mention?  Well when we have what you consider to be alot of health problems that we didn't have from the beginning of time to the 90's let me know.


#54    FurthurBB

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:42 PM

View PostOverSword, on 27 February 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

untrue statement.

Okay then, show me by what mechanism it is different.


#55    FurthurBB

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:48 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 27 February 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Selective breeding is not the same as genetic splicing.
Selective breeding is applying the principles of accellerated evolution and the outcomes are largely predictable based upon the components which are breed together.

Splicing disimilar genes from different groups assumes that there is a one to one relationshoip between a gene and a protein expression with a specific predictable conseuqunce of that protein on the plants physiology. It is now known is that there is no single gene to protein relationship. Each gene code to multiple proteins dependent on the state of gene switches. The consequence of this is that a seemingly predictable gene splice can cause a whole range of different protein expressions dependent on the environmental stresses the plant is placed under. This is the field of genetics of which we have barely started to scratch the surface. Hence to splice a gene from one organism to another is like playing russian roulette with our food.
There is already a growing body of evidence that GM  crop residues which peasant farmers rely on to feed their stock have been turned toxic to grazing animals and caused deaths in the stock. This was neither anticipated or detected before these crops were placed on the market.

The potential consequences of meddling in something so fundamental before you have even learned the language are to horrific to contemplate.

The companies know that people will not trust GM crops to be safe and so they have spent the last 10 years lobbying to never have to declare to their customers that they are selling GM foods. Would you trust anyone with so little confidcence in their own products.

Only a lack of awareness of genetics could possibly allow you to believe that this is the same as selective breeding and that there are no risks involved. Let us not forget that no GM crop has shown increased productivity over its none GM counterparts.

Br Cornelius

Sorry, I have a very large awarness of genetics and the techniques used in genetic engineering as I use them every day, although my use is for different reasons.  There is also risk involved in cross polination because of the same mechanism.  I understand where you are coming from and I do not trust Monsanto and think there should be greater regulations, but all the rest is just over reaction in my opinion.


#56    OverSword

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:52 PM

View PostFurthurBB, on 28 February 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:


Okay then, show me by what mechanism it is different.
I think you got your answer from BR and decided to disagree anyway.  So if gene splicing is safe then superweeds that have developed because of mansatos meddling with nature are just 'no big deal' right?


#57    FurthurBB

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:52 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 28 February 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Lets answer the simple question. What are the actual benefits of GMO crops as currently available ?
More important, what are the actual environmental costs as currently implemented ?

The second part is easy to answer - Roundup(glyphosphate) resistant superweeds which necessitate an overall increase in the use of herbicides.

Can someone supply some impartial evidence to support the claim that GMO's have increased productivity.

Br Cornelius

The roundup resistant superweeds came before roundup ready crops.


#58    OverSword

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:56 PM

View PostFurthurBB, on 28 February 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

The roundup resistant superweeds came before roundup ready crops.
OK, then tell me in what universe would glow in the dark bunny rabbits occur naturally.


edit to add, I'm unaware of that being true.

Edited by OverSword, 28 February 2013 - 05:56 PM.


#59    FurthurBB

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:02 PM

View PostOverSword, on 28 February 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

I think you got your answer from BR and decided to disagree anyway.  So if gene splicing is safe then superweeds that have developed because of mansatos meddling with nature are just 'no big deal' right?

Again roundup resistance came first.  The problem is always going to be if you use only one product with one mode of action be it pesticides, antibiotics, antivirals, or herbicides the organism you are trying to kill will eventually develop resistance.  In the case of roundup resistance it is more complicated because it has to do with soil bacteria as well as mutations and roundup is the culprit in both.  You spray with roundup and some of the weeds don't die but their resistance to infection is lowered.  Soil bacteria then attack the weakened weed and give the weed protection from roundup.  Actually even the weeds once thought to be completely resistant are susceptible to roundup if they are grown in sterile soil.  It is actually quite a fascinating relationship.

View PostOverSword, on 28 February 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

OK, then tell me in what universe would glow in the dark bunny rabbits occur naturally.


edit to add, I'm unaware of that being true.

They didn't come before roundup silly.


#60    AsteroidX

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:08 PM

Roundup recently lost its biodegradable status as well showing that it in fact it is not biodegradable at any appreciable rate. Its crops are also fed to our livestock. The food chain is splat cause of this mo-fu. In testing since this all started Roundup has shown to cause abnormal cell division in mice. But we will not know the impact on Humans for 40--50 years until these abnormal cell divisions could develop into human cancers. Watch breast cancer rates in women and that seems to be the most sensitive cancer to environmental effects IMO. Estrogens to be specific.

Edited by AsteroidX, 28 February 2013 - 06:09 PM.





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